Hi all
For those of you, who follow the "animal mutilation " aspects of the UFO phenomenon, you may be interested to read about a new Australian book, which covers sightings of "Big Cats" and the resultant animal damage attributed to them, in the latest post at:
http://anomalies-australiancomments.blogspot.com
Sunday, January 9, 2011
Saturday, January 8, 2011
Alien abductions and NDEs
Hi all
For those readers of this Blog who are interested in the possible inter-relationship between alien abductions and NDEs , you might care to read my latest post at http://anomalies-australiancomments.blogspot.com
For those readers of this Blog who are interested in the possible inter-relationship between alien abductions and NDEs , you might care to read my latest post at http://anomalies-australiancomments.blogspot.com
Christopher (Kit) Green - Part six
The final part of entries from Vallee's diaries re Green.
11 December 1977
"When Kit got back to his office after his stay in Texas he was annoyed to discover that the UFO files he had collected had been scattered by Agency attorneys in answer to FOIA requests. he had difficulty gathering them again. His boss called him on the carpet: "You're supposed to cover life sciences," he told him, "this stuff has nothing to do with it."
"The Agency allowed him to pursue the topic privately. He told me that something curious was happening in Mexico, with rumours of multiple UFOs seen on the ground and mysterious deaths of animals...Unfortunately we don;t have any real facts."
Comments:
Here then, is another indication that Green's interest in the UFO subject was personal rather than a mission of the CIA's.
21 January 1978
"Some of the theoretical papers I'd sent Kit have disappeared from his home study, just like Poher's photographs vanished from Bourret's apartment."
28 January 1978
"Kit and I met at Dulles airport on Thursday. Again we spent the evening arguing. I asked him what he thought of the Soviet psychotronic work..,"We began our first really serious analysis of Soviet parapsychology work about 1970," he said..."
29 January 1978
"A similar situation exists in Washington. Kit has been told that the Agency didn't have a mission to monitor the subject. His personal notes and files have been returned to him with instructions to take them home. Which brings us back to the big question: If those guys actually know nothing, who the hell is in charge?"
16 April 1978
"Some brave researchers are trying to extract UFO data from the government through the FOIA. "All they'll get is a lot of garbage," Kit told me. "The government no longer files anything under the UFO label. All personnel have been told to drop any research, direct or indirect, about the subject. I got mad at this. I told them they had no right to tell analysts what they could and couldn't, look at...what do you know about Wilbur Franklin?" Kit asked...The poor guy died last week in rather strange circumstances," he told me..."
"We spent the rest of the evening arguing about close encounters. When we spoke again the next morning after breakfast Kit told me he had spent most of the night reading my analyses.
"I've drawn a number of lessons from this," he said. "For me, all the physiological effects you describe appear to belong to the autonomous sympathetic nervous system which relates to the rhinencephalon in terms of smells and feelings of nausea. Those are tow features often noted by your witnesses."
"Does that lead you to look for psychiatric explanations, then?" I asked, already on the defensive. "Psychiatric explanations won't explain these cases you know."
"No, I've become skeptical about psychiatric hypotheses," he announced to my relief. "Psychiatric effects are present , but there may be a physiological cause that triggers them."
18 May 1978
"I finally took Kit over to Jim Irish's lab. As we drove through the L.A. traffic Kit told me about his meetings with Bob Beck, who researches brainwave entraining. I think beck managed to convince him that entraining was possible, but he remains skeptical of Bearden's notion that the Russians are using it as a weapon."
About Jim Irish. "I think the fellow is exactly who he says he is." Kit told me once we were back int he car, driving along Sunset. "He must have worked as a private contractor for ASA and later for NSA...I suspect NSA wanted to find out if it was possible to detect specific systems aboard satellites. If Jim Irish could pick them up with his Polaroid plates, it's likely the Russians do it to...We finally discussed cattle mutilations, which left him fairly stumped. Kit leans towards the theory that witches are responsible."
23 May 1978
"Kit is in close contact with most of the UFO groups, so his interest is only confidential among the uninformed. Right now he is on his way to Houston where Valerie Ransone and a group of contactees have promised he would witness materialization. But what are his true intentions? He belongs to a small cadre of very bright intelligence types who are looking for elements of truth...It is becoming obvious to both of us that some of the rumours about extraterrestrials have been planted, perhaps as a cover to esoteric weapons systems, or as part of psychological warfare exercises in which ufologists are a convenient test bed."
Comment:
"some of the rumours about extraterrestrials have been planted." It would be nice to know what hard evidence this is based on.
14 June 1978
"Evidently the CIA had a contact inside CUFOs, as it does among most UFO groups. Someone close to Allen in Chicago has leaked a pile of internal documents to Dave M. Another curious episode as soon as Dave got the CUFOS papers his secure phone rang: a Colonel requested to see them. Now Kit himself is wondering who could be watching them..."
12 July 1978
"Kit was waiting for me at Dulles, driving a Volvo full of kids, so we were not able to talk seriously until after dinner. Once we were alone I brought up my concerns..."You may be right," Kit finally said "about a secret project."
5 January 1979
"I've confronted kt with the fact that, according to the top-level Spanish officials I met in Mexico, the Spanish Air Force reported all their UFO data to "the Americans" - yet another indicator that a secret channel does exist. Kit denied knowledge of the sightings I recounted for him. He recently had the same conversation with John Schuessler, who thinks the secret project isn't at CIA but at NRO..."
5 March 1979
"I won' see Kit on this trip. Sadly, in spite of my admiration for his sharp intellect, there's a barrier between us. He's cleared for all kinds of secrets to which I share no access. It's pointless to talk, and I can't trust his bosses with my information."
8 October 1979
"In the meantime Kit has hired Rommell, a retired FBI agent charged with a formal study. H is spending his time and much CIA money in New Mexico."
22 November 1979
"Kit has come to the absurd conclusion that those mutilation reports that are not simply misinterpretations of predator actions are the product of schizophrenia in witnesses... I have cured myself of the fascination I once felt for the Intelligence Community."
Comments:
1. Volume two of Vallee's diaries ended in 1979. No more have yet been published.
2. I make no apologies for quoting at length, about Green, from Vallee's diaries. I think the entries do allow us to see Green and his thinking in the 1970's, and add to what has been published in the last few years.
11 December 1977
"When Kit got back to his office after his stay in Texas he was annoyed to discover that the UFO files he had collected had been scattered by Agency attorneys in answer to FOIA requests. he had difficulty gathering them again. His boss called him on the carpet: "You're supposed to cover life sciences," he told him, "this stuff has nothing to do with it."
"The Agency allowed him to pursue the topic privately. He told me that something curious was happening in Mexico, with rumours of multiple UFOs seen on the ground and mysterious deaths of animals...Unfortunately we don;t have any real facts."
Comments:
Here then, is another indication that Green's interest in the UFO subject was personal rather than a mission of the CIA's.
21 January 1978
"Some of the theoretical papers I'd sent Kit have disappeared from his home study, just like Poher's photographs vanished from Bourret's apartment."
28 January 1978
"Kit and I met at Dulles airport on Thursday. Again we spent the evening arguing. I asked him what he thought of the Soviet psychotronic work..,"We began our first really serious analysis of Soviet parapsychology work about 1970," he said..."
29 January 1978
"A similar situation exists in Washington. Kit has been told that the Agency didn't have a mission to monitor the subject. His personal notes and files have been returned to him with instructions to take them home. Which brings us back to the big question: If those guys actually know nothing, who the hell is in charge?"
16 April 1978
"Some brave researchers are trying to extract UFO data from the government through the FOIA. "All they'll get is a lot of garbage," Kit told me. "The government no longer files anything under the UFO label. All personnel have been told to drop any research, direct or indirect, about the subject. I got mad at this. I told them they had no right to tell analysts what they could and couldn't, look at...what do you know about Wilbur Franklin?" Kit asked...The poor guy died last week in rather strange circumstances," he told me..."
"We spent the rest of the evening arguing about close encounters. When we spoke again the next morning after breakfast Kit told me he had spent most of the night reading my analyses.
"I've drawn a number of lessons from this," he said. "For me, all the physiological effects you describe appear to belong to the autonomous sympathetic nervous system which relates to the rhinencephalon in terms of smells and feelings of nausea. Those are tow features often noted by your witnesses."
"Does that lead you to look for psychiatric explanations, then?" I asked, already on the defensive. "Psychiatric explanations won't explain these cases you know."
"No, I've become skeptical about psychiatric hypotheses," he announced to my relief. "Psychiatric effects are present , but there may be a physiological cause that triggers them."
18 May 1978
"I finally took Kit over to Jim Irish's lab. As we drove through the L.A. traffic Kit told me about his meetings with Bob Beck, who researches brainwave entraining. I think beck managed to convince him that entraining was possible, but he remains skeptical of Bearden's notion that the Russians are using it as a weapon."
About Jim Irish. "I think the fellow is exactly who he says he is." Kit told me once we were back int he car, driving along Sunset. "He must have worked as a private contractor for ASA and later for NSA...I suspect NSA wanted to find out if it was possible to detect specific systems aboard satellites. If Jim Irish could pick them up with his Polaroid plates, it's likely the Russians do it to...We finally discussed cattle mutilations, which left him fairly stumped. Kit leans towards the theory that witches are responsible."
23 May 1978
"Kit is in close contact with most of the UFO groups, so his interest is only confidential among the uninformed. Right now he is on his way to Houston where Valerie Ransone and a group of contactees have promised he would witness materialization. But what are his true intentions? He belongs to a small cadre of very bright intelligence types who are looking for elements of truth...It is becoming obvious to both of us that some of the rumours about extraterrestrials have been planted, perhaps as a cover to esoteric weapons systems, or as part of psychological warfare exercises in which ufologists are a convenient test bed."
Comment:
"some of the rumours about extraterrestrials have been planted." It would be nice to know what hard evidence this is based on.
14 June 1978
"Evidently the CIA had a contact inside CUFOs, as it does among most UFO groups. Someone close to Allen in Chicago has leaked a pile of internal documents to Dave M. Another curious episode as soon as Dave got the CUFOS papers his secure phone rang: a Colonel requested to see them. Now Kit himself is wondering who could be watching them..."
12 July 1978
"Kit was waiting for me at Dulles, driving a Volvo full of kids, so we were not able to talk seriously until after dinner. Once we were alone I brought up my concerns..."You may be right," Kit finally said "about a secret project."
5 January 1979
"I've confronted kt with the fact that, according to the top-level Spanish officials I met in Mexico, the Spanish Air Force reported all their UFO data to "the Americans" - yet another indicator that a secret channel does exist. Kit denied knowledge of the sightings I recounted for him. He recently had the same conversation with John Schuessler, who thinks the secret project isn't at CIA but at NRO..."
5 March 1979
"I won' see Kit on this trip. Sadly, in spite of my admiration for his sharp intellect, there's a barrier between us. He's cleared for all kinds of secrets to which I share no access. It's pointless to talk, and I can't trust his bosses with my information."
8 October 1979
"In the meantime Kit has hired Rommell, a retired FBI agent charged with a formal study. H is spending his time and much CIA money in New Mexico."
22 November 1979
"Kit has come to the absurd conclusion that those mutilation reports that are not simply misinterpretations of predator actions are the product of schizophrenia in witnesses... I have cured myself of the fascination I once felt for the Intelligence Community."
Comments:
1. Volume two of Vallee's diaries ended in 1979. No more have yet been published.
2. I make no apologies for quoting at length, about Green, from Vallee's diaries. I think the entries do allow us to see Green and his thinking in the 1970's, and add to what has been published in the last few years.
Christopher (Kit) Green - Part five
Continuing with Vallee's diary entries re Green.
20 March 1977
"I plan to come home through El Paso where I'll meet with Dr Green, still in medical school. I expect we will argue again about the reality of UFOs and mutilations, both of which he keeps denying."
24 March 1977
"When I saw him in El Paso Kit was bothered by John Wilhelm, the Time Magazine journalist who wrote Search for Superman and is now hot on his trail. Kit has started to study cases of unexplained deaths and comas that have struck parapsychology researchers..." Click here for some of Wilhelm's work.
11 August 1977
"Kit and I spent two hours arguing yesterday at The Little Store in Woodside, closed for the afternoon. Alain gave us two Napoleons, a pot of coffee and left us alone. I proposed to attack the UFO system by moving upstream along its own feedback loop. I explained to kit how the topology of a control system worked and why we could try and affect it, even if we didn't yet know the nature of the actual agent (extraterrestrial, ultra-dimensional, collective unconscious, human manipulation etc..."
"Something bothered me about such conversations with kit. We speak past each other. I try to make him see the reality of the phenomenon, because he's one of the few people in a position to bring the subject up before decision-makers, but he continues to deny it, in academic terms that son';t take the facts into account."
Comments:
1. This entry provides me with the answer to a question which had been bothering me, why was Vallee spending so much time with Kit? The answer seems to be "because he's one of the few people in a position to bring the subject up before decision-makers."
2. I would love to know what exactly Vallee meant by "I proposed to attack the UFO system by moving upstream along its own feedback loop."
30 September 1977
"I spoke to Kit at Dulles. We ended up at the coffee shop of the Marriott, where we had once met with "Smith."
"Whatever happened to that guy, anyway?" I asked, "And his Group of Twelve?"
"We never found out why he wanted to know you, did we?" he said, evading me. I have my own idea that "Smith" wanted to make his own assessment, for whatever purpose. Kit was sceptical that NASA could study UFOs."
"They don't have the resources to do a good job," he argued. "They don't have the right psychologists, medical experts, analysts. We're the only ones with these resources,"
"What are you waiting for, then" I challenged him.
"We can't do it until the Executive tells us to study the problem."
"Yet Schneider had just told me he'd never trust the CIA to do a reliable study...I think Kit is a bright scientist with an open mind but he is the exception in a bureaucratic empire that smothers research. Even if he did know something, he couldn't use it, so what good is that?"
Comments:
"Schneider" refers to Stanley Schneider, assistant director of the Office of Scientific and Technology Policy under President carter. A colleague of Vallee's after meeting Schneider told Vallee that Robert Frosch, of NASA was planning to set up a UFO office. (p.393.)
17 November 1977
"Kit keeps explaining away the sightings by a combination of witness unreliability, fugue states, paraphrenia, or unspecified "anthropological" factors; none of which accounts for the hard core data. As for cattle mutilation cases, which may or may not be related to UFOs at all, he dismisses them as the simple work of predators."
Comment:
For an explanation of "paraphrenia" click here.
20 March 1977
"I plan to come home through El Paso where I'll meet with Dr Green, still in medical school. I expect we will argue again about the reality of UFOs and mutilations, both of which he keeps denying."
24 March 1977
"When I saw him in El Paso Kit was bothered by John Wilhelm, the Time Magazine journalist who wrote Search for Superman and is now hot on his trail. Kit has started to study cases of unexplained deaths and comas that have struck parapsychology researchers..." Click here for some of Wilhelm's work.
11 August 1977
"Kit and I spent two hours arguing yesterday at The Little Store in Woodside, closed for the afternoon. Alain gave us two Napoleons, a pot of coffee and left us alone. I proposed to attack the UFO system by moving upstream along its own feedback loop. I explained to kit how the topology of a control system worked and why we could try and affect it, even if we didn't yet know the nature of the actual agent (extraterrestrial, ultra-dimensional, collective unconscious, human manipulation etc..."
"Something bothered me about such conversations with kit. We speak past each other. I try to make him see the reality of the phenomenon, because he's one of the few people in a position to bring the subject up before decision-makers, but he continues to deny it, in academic terms that son';t take the facts into account."
Comments:
1. This entry provides me with the answer to a question which had been bothering me, why was Vallee spending so much time with Kit? The answer seems to be "because he's one of the few people in a position to bring the subject up before decision-makers."
2. I would love to know what exactly Vallee meant by "I proposed to attack the UFO system by moving upstream along its own feedback loop."
30 September 1977
"I spoke to Kit at Dulles. We ended up at the coffee shop of the Marriott, where we had once met with "Smith."
"Whatever happened to that guy, anyway?" I asked, "And his Group of Twelve?"
"We never found out why he wanted to know you, did we?" he said, evading me. I have my own idea that "Smith" wanted to make his own assessment, for whatever purpose. Kit was sceptical that NASA could study UFOs."
"They don't have the resources to do a good job," he argued. "They don't have the right psychologists, medical experts, analysts. We're the only ones with these resources,"
"What are you waiting for, then" I challenged him.
"We can't do it until the Executive tells us to study the problem."
"Yet Schneider had just told me he'd never trust the CIA to do a reliable study...I think Kit is a bright scientist with an open mind but he is the exception in a bureaucratic empire that smothers research. Even if he did know something, he couldn't use it, so what good is that?"
Comments:
"Schneider" refers to Stanley Schneider, assistant director of the Office of Scientific and Technology Policy under President carter. A colleague of Vallee's after meeting Schneider told Vallee that Robert Frosch, of NASA was planning to set up a UFO office. (p.393.)
17 November 1977
"Kit keeps explaining away the sightings by a combination of witness unreliability, fugue states, paraphrenia, or unspecified "anthropological" factors; none of which accounts for the hard core data. As for cattle mutilation cases, which may or may not be related to UFOs at all, he dismisses them as the simple work of predators."
Comment:
For an explanation of "paraphrenia" click here.
Christopher (Kit) Green - Part four
Dear readers
In this post I will be continuing entries from Jacques Vallee's diaries about Green.
16 June 1974:
"Wearing a colorful shirt and a vibrant tie, Kit met me at Dulles last Friday in his little yellow sports car...Kit and I drove over to the Marriott to meet David M and "Sams," who was introduced to me as a member of the new "Group of twelve," which sounded exciting until we sat down in the bar area and I realised they were all space cadets, talking about pedestrian research worthy of the old NICAP.
"Sams is a 20-year veteran of the agency, manager of a project that flies "secret vehicles often confused with UFOs." A solid fellow with brown hair and thick glasses, he said i should write a proposal with him for an ambitious effort with a big budget, but he had no answers to my questions about scientific objectives...We went over to Kit's pleasant house int he woods where I met his cheerful wife and their two sons, who made me feel at home. We spent all of Friday evening arguing, all Of Saturday morning as well. I failed to convince him that UFOs were real."
Comments:
1. I don't recall coming across a 1974 Government study group before? Do any readers know of this?
2. I assume the quote about a project that flies secret vehicles is referring to either the U-2 or more likely the SR-71 aircraft. Click here for more on the SR-71.
3. One wonders what "Sams" thoughts were on his proposed project. What was he looking to achieve?
21 July 1974:
"Kit just left, along with Hal, Russell and two of his kids. We had a long discussion after a demo of my landing catalogue. Kit has dropped out of Sam's covert "Group of Twelve."
10 December 1974:
"Over lunch kit told me he'd been able to reconstruct all the data alluded to by Emenegger. "Everything checks out, but I can't find out if the Holloman movies actually exists."
"...Kit reluctantly confirmed there was a group of 15 engineers in the Midwest (I assumed it was McDonnell in St Louis) secretly doing UFO research for CIA under cover of "aeronautical research." They're getting data through leaks from CUFOs and other amateurs. I congratulated myself for working alone, keeping my own counsel."
Comments:
1. There was an alleged UFO landing at Holloman Air Force Base. Click here for more.
2. Re the quote re McDonnell see a previous post here.
19 February 1975
"Kit came over for a long talk about Lopez Rega, the cults of California and my theories of control systems. He was flying up from Los Angeles where he'd met Sandler and was thrilled."
Comments:
1. "Lopez Rega." p264 states "A former law enforcement officer, Rega was succeeded in convincing his followers that subterranean ectoplasms were living under Buenos Aires and that he was in contact with them." It seems a strange topic for Green to be interested in, even if he was the CIA's "biological intelligence" area.
2. "Sandler" refers to Allan Sandler who was making a UFO documentary - see the link re the Holloman film, above.
23 March 1975
"A couple of weeks ago Kit met in Virginia with Russell in Hal's hotel room. They had started to discuss a case in which a mysterious mechanical arm appeared out of thin air int he bedroom of a Livermore engineer when the four of them suddenly heard a key turn in the door. Hal and Kit positioned themselves on either side and jumped on the intruder as soon as he pushed the door in, grabbing a little fellow with only one arm! The poor man swore he had been given the wrong key. They called the front desk. Indeed he had gone to the wrong room, but why did his key open Hal's door?"
26 April 1975
"Kit is now talking to every ufologist worth his salt. Last night he told me that the Holloman film that Sandler was trying so hard to locate had been withdrawn from the library by a Captain Harner who has since been transferred! But he can't find any trace of any Harner, or any such film at the Pentagon."
1 June 1975
"Over lunch Kit said that a friend of his recently attended a witchcraft session in San Francisco, where he actually saw the devil. Later he was shown a tiny pipe connected to the central cauldron. It gave off a gas which made the participants susceptible to suggestion...some of their adepts swear they have received communications from higher beings."
26 March 1975
An entry about animal mutilations. "From my own analysis, which runs contrary top Kit's conclusions, only a small number of cattle mutilations can be attributed to cults or predators."
Overall comments;
As can be seen from the above, Green was taking an interest in a broad range of topics, including UFOs.
In this post I will be continuing entries from Jacques Vallee's diaries about Green.
16 June 1974:
"Wearing a colorful shirt and a vibrant tie, Kit met me at Dulles last Friday in his little yellow sports car...Kit and I drove over to the Marriott to meet David M and "Sams," who was introduced to me as a member of the new "Group of twelve," which sounded exciting until we sat down in the bar area and I realised they were all space cadets, talking about pedestrian research worthy of the old NICAP.
"Sams is a 20-year veteran of the agency, manager of a project that flies "secret vehicles often confused with UFOs." A solid fellow with brown hair and thick glasses, he said i should write a proposal with him for an ambitious effort with a big budget, but he had no answers to my questions about scientific objectives...We went over to Kit's pleasant house int he woods where I met his cheerful wife and their two sons, who made me feel at home. We spent all of Friday evening arguing, all Of Saturday morning as well. I failed to convince him that UFOs were real."
Comments:
1. I don't recall coming across a 1974 Government study group before? Do any readers know of this?
2. I assume the quote about a project that flies secret vehicles is referring to either the U-2 or more likely the SR-71 aircraft. Click here for more on the SR-71.
3. One wonders what "Sams" thoughts were on his proposed project. What was he looking to achieve?
21 July 1974:
"Kit just left, along with Hal, Russell and two of his kids. We had a long discussion after a demo of my landing catalogue. Kit has dropped out of Sam's covert "Group of Twelve."
10 December 1974:
"Over lunch kit told me he'd been able to reconstruct all the data alluded to by Emenegger. "Everything checks out, but I can't find out if the Holloman movies actually exists."
"...Kit reluctantly confirmed there was a group of 15 engineers in the Midwest (I assumed it was McDonnell in St Louis) secretly doing UFO research for CIA under cover of "aeronautical research." They're getting data through leaks from CUFOs and other amateurs. I congratulated myself for working alone, keeping my own counsel."
Comments:
1. There was an alleged UFO landing at Holloman Air Force Base. Click here for more.
2. Re the quote re McDonnell see a previous post here.
19 February 1975
"Kit came over for a long talk about Lopez Rega, the cults of California and my theories of control systems. He was flying up from Los Angeles where he'd met Sandler and was thrilled."
Comments:
1. "Lopez Rega." p264 states "A former law enforcement officer, Rega was succeeded in convincing his followers that subterranean ectoplasms were living under Buenos Aires and that he was in contact with them." It seems a strange topic for Green to be interested in, even if he was the CIA's "biological intelligence" area.
2. "Sandler" refers to Allan Sandler who was making a UFO documentary - see the link re the Holloman film, above.
23 March 1975
"A couple of weeks ago Kit met in Virginia with Russell in Hal's hotel room. They had started to discuss a case in which a mysterious mechanical arm appeared out of thin air int he bedroom of a Livermore engineer when the four of them suddenly heard a key turn in the door. Hal and Kit positioned themselves on either side and jumped on the intruder as soon as he pushed the door in, grabbing a little fellow with only one arm! The poor man swore he had been given the wrong key. They called the front desk. Indeed he had gone to the wrong room, but why did his key open Hal's door?"
26 April 1975
"Kit is now talking to every ufologist worth his salt. Last night he told me that the Holloman film that Sandler was trying so hard to locate had been withdrawn from the library by a Captain Harner who has since been transferred! But he can't find any trace of any Harner, or any such film at the Pentagon."
1 June 1975
"Over lunch Kit said that a friend of his recently attended a witchcraft session in San Francisco, where he actually saw the devil. Later he was shown a tiny pipe connected to the central cauldron. It gave off a gas which made the participants susceptible to suggestion...some of their adepts swear they have received communications from higher beings."
26 March 1975
An entry about animal mutilations. "From my own analysis, which runs contrary top Kit's conclusions, only a small number of cattle mutilations can be attributed to cults or predators."
Overall comments;
As can be seen from the above, Green was taking an interest in a broad range of topics, including UFOs.
Friday, January 7, 2011
Christopher (Kit) Green - Part three
Dear readers
In my last two posts I started to explore the UFO related work of American Christopher C (Kit) Green, who, while in the CIA between 1969 and 1985 spent some of his time researching the paranormal, including the subject of UFOs. It seems important to me to explore the work of someone who (apparently) started their interest while working for an intelligence agency, and then continues this interest right up until now. Like my co-blogger, Keith Basterfield, both their UFO interests span 40 years, and anyone who has survived an interest in any field for so long, has some standing in my mind.
I recall that Jacques Vallee in one of his diaries mentions Kit Green a number of times, so I thought it might be good to return to the earlier era of the 1970's to see what Jacques Vallee records about Green and his interest at that time. I think I will provide extensive quotes in order that we can get a good idea of those times. Another reason I want to provide this information, is that while conducting a reasonably complete search of internet sources about Green over the last few days, I have never seen anyone citing this information of Vallee's. So, I will put it on the record.
Vallee on Green:
I'll be quoting from "Forbidden Science-Volume two-Journals 1970-1979 The Belmont Years." Published by Documentica Research, LLC. 2008. ISBN 978-0-615-24974-2.
11 February 1974
"Hal's contact is a boyish fellow, Dr Christopher Green nicknamed Kit, a dynamic bespectacled young man of medium build with alert brown eyes. He holds a doctorate in biology, exudes optimism and refreshing humor.
"Dr Green wasted no time in getting into our first topic of conversation, the Pascagoula case. He knew more about it than the "experts" who had claimed to analyze it. Hynek had interviewed both witnesses with Jim Harder, who made a big show of hypnotizing them. But Dr Green told me that a fortnight after the supposed abduction two other men fishing from a boat in the same river had seen an oblong, torpedo-like craft in the water. It was about one metre long and emitted a cone of light. They touched it with an oar. The light went off, and then came back, suggesting inner control.The coast Guard was called up and confirmed the observation, after which everybody was debriefed by Naval Intelligence and all hell broke loose. Green was alerted by the Navy. 'Nobody has pointed out that Pascagoula is a strategic site,' he said, 'it's the place where most of the U.S. nuclear subs are built. So the Navy surmised the object was a Soviet spying device. But why did it have a light, if it was designed to spy? Furthermore it's difficult to make a robot device that swims under water."
"We went on to discuss computer catalogues. But when I asked if they had any data about the lead mask case in Brazil he had never heard about it. The most important thing I learned was that Green has counterparts in every branch of the Executive. Like Howell McConnell, they mainly operated "out of personal interest," with the blessing of higher-level managers. They occasionally exchanged data, but he claimed little was done with it.
"In my case, I have a perfect excuse for doing this, out of my office at the Central Intelligence Agency:If there are Aliens around, dead or alive, they come under the mission of my group, which is biological intelligence. I wouldn't be doing my job if I didn't keep my mind open to this possibility."
"Are you involved in longer-term research, looking for patterns?"
"Not the agency. Not until there's clear proof that the problem is real. My bosses have read the same reports you have. They've even read your books, but they simply have never been scared by the problem to the point of setting up a serious project."
"I pushed him a little more: 'Don't you agree there must be a secret effort somewhere?'
"He thought about it for a while. 'Yes,' he finally said, 'I do agree with that statement. In my group we've wondered if it wasn't being run within private industry.'"
Comments:
1.For more on the Pascagoula case click here. There is no mention of the sighting related by Green. However there are some details on another site (click here) which fits in with Green's comments.
2. I was drawn to the comment: In my case, I have a perfect excuse for doing this, out of my office at the Central Intelligence Agency.If there are Aliens around, dead or alive, they come under the mission of my group, which is biological intelligence. I wouldn't be doing my job if I didn't keep my mind open to this possibility." My reading of this is that perhaps Green had a pre-existing interest in the topic and was able to use resources at his CIA job to further his private interests.
26 February 1974:
"A temporary clearance is being set up to enable me to visit Kit next month in hopes to better understand the chessboard."
18 May 1974:
Vallee visited the NSA."On the way back I met with Kit at the Dulles airport restaurant. His team remains interested in tracking down rumours but long-term research is simply not their mission, he said in response to my tirades stressing the urgency for science work. If they stumbled on hard evidence, of course they would pursue it and bring their analytical expertise upon it, but he confessed that's unlikely to happen.
"'Damm it,'he told me, 'I've got my people looking deep within the Air Force and we can't find anybody who'll talk to us! I've spent three days with Winebrenner, and brought up the subject as part of our work. He swore to me that FTD wasn't doing anything on UFOs any more. He said they had neither hardware or biological data.'...'The Air Force has unfocused objectives,' Kit went on. 'They have a shortage of scientific brains and they are weakened by the fact that their personnel rotates every two years. So where do they hide the fucking project, if there's one?'"
Comments:
1. Elsewhere in his book Vallee mentions that Colonel "Winebrenner, the new commander at the Foreign Technology Division..." (p.67.)
2. Winebrenner is also mentioned at:
http://www.nicap.org/bluebook/51-69.htm
2 June 1974:
"...we got a call from Hal. He didn't want to talk over the phone, so I invited him over for coffee. "I don't know why Kit hasn't called you himself, except that technically the line of communication goes through me," he began. "He thinks you ought to know there's a group of 12 highly placed people in the Government who've decided to create a focus for the study of UFOs, with full access and funding for researchers like you. One of these people is at the deputy secretary level. He agrees with you that Hynek should be invited.""
To be continued...
In my last two posts I started to explore the UFO related work of American Christopher C (Kit) Green, who, while in the CIA between 1969 and 1985 spent some of his time researching the paranormal, including the subject of UFOs. It seems important to me to explore the work of someone who (apparently) started their interest while working for an intelligence agency, and then continues this interest right up until now. Like my co-blogger, Keith Basterfield, both their UFO interests span 40 years, and anyone who has survived an interest in any field for so long, has some standing in my mind.
I recall that Jacques Vallee in one of his diaries mentions Kit Green a number of times, so I thought it might be good to return to the earlier era of the 1970's to see what Jacques Vallee records about Green and his interest at that time. I think I will provide extensive quotes in order that we can get a good idea of those times. Another reason I want to provide this information, is that while conducting a reasonably complete search of internet sources about Green over the last few days, I have never seen anyone citing this information of Vallee's. So, I will put it on the record.
Vallee on Green:
I'll be quoting from "Forbidden Science-Volume two-Journals 1970-1979 The Belmont Years." Published by Documentica Research, LLC. 2008. ISBN 978-0-615-24974-2.
11 February 1974
"Hal's contact is a boyish fellow, Dr Christopher Green nicknamed Kit, a dynamic bespectacled young man of medium build with alert brown eyes. He holds a doctorate in biology, exudes optimism and refreshing humor.
"Dr Green wasted no time in getting into our first topic of conversation, the Pascagoula case. He knew more about it than the "experts" who had claimed to analyze it. Hynek had interviewed both witnesses with Jim Harder, who made a big show of hypnotizing them. But Dr Green told me that a fortnight after the supposed abduction two other men fishing from a boat in the same river had seen an oblong, torpedo-like craft in the water. It was about one metre long and emitted a cone of light. They touched it with an oar. The light went off, and then came back, suggesting inner control.The coast Guard was called up and confirmed the observation, after which everybody was debriefed by Naval Intelligence and all hell broke loose. Green was alerted by the Navy. 'Nobody has pointed out that Pascagoula is a strategic site,' he said, 'it's the place where most of the U.S. nuclear subs are built. So the Navy surmised the object was a Soviet spying device. But why did it have a light, if it was designed to spy? Furthermore it's difficult to make a robot device that swims under water."
"We went on to discuss computer catalogues. But when I asked if they had any data about the lead mask case in Brazil he had never heard about it. The most important thing I learned was that Green has counterparts in every branch of the Executive. Like Howell McConnell, they mainly operated "out of personal interest," with the blessing of higher-level managers. They occasionally exchanged data, but he claimed little was done with it.
"In my case, I have a perfect excuse for doing this, out of my office at the Central Intelligence Agency:If there are Aliens around, dead or alive, they come under the mission of my group, which is biological intelligence. I wouldn't be doing my job if I didn't keep my mind open to this possibility."
"Are you involved in longer-term research, looking for patterns?"
"Not the agency. Not until there's clear proof that the problem is real. My bosses have read the same reports you have. They've even read your books, but they simply have never been scared by the problem to the point of setting up a serious project."
"I pushed him a little more: 'Don't you agree there must be a secret effort somewhere?'
"He thought about it for a while. 'Yes,' he finally said, 'I do agree with that statement. In my group we've wondered if it wasn't being run within private industry.'"
Comments:
1.For more on the Pascagoula case click here. There is no mention of the sighting related by Green. However there are some details on another site (click here) which fits in with Green's comments.
2. I was drawn to the comment: In my case, I have a perfect excuse for doing this, out of my office at the Central Intelligence Agency.If there are Aliens around, dead or alive, they come under the mission of my group, which is biological intelligence. I wouldn't be doing my job if I didn't keep my mind open to this possibility." My reading of this is that perhaps Green had a pre-existing interest in the topic and was able to use resources at his CIA job to further his private interests.
26 February 1974:
"A temporary clearance is being set up to enable me to visit Kit next month in hopes to better understand the chessboard."
18 May 1974:
Vallee visited the NSA."On the way back I met with Kit at the Dulles airport restaurant. His team remains interested in tracking down rumours but long-term research is simply not their mission, he said in response to my tirades stressing the urgency for science work. If they stumbled on hard evidence, of course they would pursue it and bring their analytical expertise upon it, but he confessed that's unlikely to happen.
"'Damm it,'he told me, 'I've got my people looking deep within the Air Force and we can't find anybody who'll talk to us! I've spent three days with Winebrenner, and brought up the subject as part of our work. He swore to me that FTD wasn't doing anything on UFOs any more. He said they had neither hardware or biological data.'...'The Air Force has unfocused objectives,' Kit went on. 'They have a shortage of scientific brains and they are weakened by the fact that their personnel rotates every two years. So where do they hide the fucking project, if there's one?'"
Comments:
1. Elsewhere in his book Vallee mentions that Colonel "Winebrenner, the new commander at the Foreign Technology Division..." (p.67.)
2. Winebrenner is also mentioned at:
http://www.nicap.org/bluebook/51-69.htm
2 June 1974:
"...we got a call from Hal. He didn't want to talk over the phone, so I invited him over for coffee. "I don't know why Kit hasn't called you himself, except that technically the line of communication goes through me," he began. "He thinks you ought to know there's a group of 12 highly placed people in the Government who've decided to create a focus for the study of UFOs, with full access and funding for researchers like you. One of these people is at the deputy secretary level. He agrees with you that Hynek should be invited.""
To be continued...
Thursday, January 6, 2011
Christopher (Kit) Green - Part two
Dear readers
I love Summer in Adelaide. It also helps not to be at work at the moment, being on a vacation break. Lazy mornings enjoying the coolness of the day; lazy, long salad based lunches and a glass of awesome South Australian wine; and lazy afternoons lying on the lounge in the air-conditioning reading a good book and undertaking some research on the net.Enough of that, and on to today's post.
Yesterday's post, on someone I read about in the book "Mirage Men," namely Christopher (Kit) Green, who worked in the CIA between 1969 and 1985, led me to conduct some more research overnight. I looked for other interviews he may have given. I found one from July 2008.
The interview:
The introduction to the interview states:
"Dr Christopher C Green, known to friends and colleagues as "Kit," currently serves as the Assistant Dean of Clinical Research, China for the Wayne State School of Medicine, in Detroit Michigan. He served in the CIA from 1969 through 1985. In the early 1970's, Dr Green's work included involvement in the start of the 20-year government research project into ESP and psychic ability." Click here to see current faculty directory with a Christopher Green listed.)
I'd like to quote Green's own words from the interview:
"I was an "open" employee and able to generally discuss this question for my entire career. My position was as an analyst in the Life Sciences Division, later to become a Science and technology Division, in the part of the agency that examined intelligence data that may affect national security. Most of the data was unclassified. What analyst's "did" was called "All source" intelligence...My primary responsibility was in Physiology and Medicine, life support systems for foreign space and underseas platforms, and a wide range of biological and chemical threat analysis. My speciality was Forensic Medicine; this means trying to figure out diagnoses from very little and often highly incomplete data."
Green estimated that "Overall, I never spent more than 10% of my time on the subjects across any given period of weeks or a month..."
The rest of the interview dealt with the CIA's remote viewing research and not UFOs apart from:
"LTK: Have your views regarding phenomenon such as UFOs, ghosts or ESP changes at all from the time you started with the CIA to the day you left in 1985? If so why?
"CG: Yes. I now believe the phenomenon is much less common that I used to think."
The complete interview may be read here.
Green's part in the CIA remote viewing program:
Apart from the above article I came across a reference to this in a book.
"On June 27, 1972 Puthoff wrote concerning the magnetometer experiment to CIA scientist Kit Green, who occupied the Life Science Desk in the agency's Office of Strategic Intelligence (OSI), starting a long-term relationship with one of the most important figures in the CIA to support the SRI remote viewing program." (Smith, P.H.2005. "Reading the Enemy's Mind." Tom Doherty Associates. New York. ISBN 0-312-87515-0 page 64.)Click here for Smith's website.
Bruce Maccabee:
UFOlogist Bruce Maccabee investigated the New Zealand UFO sightings of December 1978. It is reported that Maccabee met with Kit Green at the CIA in 1979 when he briefed a number of CIA personnel on the New Zealand events. (Source: click here.)
Vallee:
I seem to recall that the diaries of Jacques Vallee contain some entries about Kit Green. I will dig out my copy of Vallee's book and report.
Comment:
Green seems to have retained his interest in UFOs since his CIA days in the 70's and 80's. Have any readers information on what he was doing between 1985 and 2008? I'd appreciate anything you have.
I love Summer in Adelaide. It also helps not to be at work at the moment, being on a vacation break. Lazy mornings enjoying the coolness of the day; lazy, long salad based lunches and a glass of awesome South Australian wine; and lazy afternoons lying on the lounge in the air-conditioning reading a good book and undertaking some research on the net.Enough of that, and on to today's post.
Yesterday's post, on someone I read about in the book "Mirage Men," namely Christopher (Kit) Green, who worked in the CIA between 1969 and 1985, led me to conduct some more research overnight. I looked for other interviews he may have given. I found one from July 2008.
The interview:
The introduction to the interview states:
"Dr Christopher C Green, known to friends and colleagues as "Kit," currently serves as the Assistant Dean of Clinical Research, China for the Wayne State School of Medicine, in Detroit Michigan. He served in the CIA from 1969 through 1985. In the early 1970's, Dr Green's work included involvement in the start of the 20-year government research project into ESP and psychic ability." Click here to see current faculty directory with a Christopher Green listed.)
I'd like to quote Green's own words from the interview:
"I was an "open" employee and able to generally discuss this question for my entire career. My position was as an analyst in the Life Sciences Division, later to become a Science and technology Division, in the part of the agency that examined intelligence data that may affect national security. Most of the data was unclassified. What analyst's "did" was called "All source" intelligence...My primary responsibility was in Physiology and Medicine, life support systems for foreign space and underseas platforms, and a wide range of biological and chemical threat analysis. My speciality was Forensic Medicine; this means trying to figure out diagnoses from very little and often highly incomplete data."
Green estimated that "Overall, I never spent more than 10% of my time on the subjects across any given period of weeks or a month..."
The rest of the interview dealt with the CIA's remote viewing research and not UFOs apart from:
"LTK: Have your views regarding phenomenon such as UFOs, ghosts or ESP changes at all from the time you started with the CIA to the day you left in 1985? If so why?
"CG: Yes. I now believe the phenomenon is much less common that I used to think."
The complete interview may be read here.
Green's part in the CIA remote viewing program:
Apart from the above article I came across a reference to this in a book.
"On June 27, 1972 Puthoff wrote concerning the magnetometer experiment to CIA scientist Kit Green, who occupied the Life Science Desk in the agency's Office of Strategic Intelligence (OSI), starting a long-term relationship with one of the most important figures in the CIA to support the SRI remote viewing program." (Smith, P.H.2005. "Reading the Enemy's Mind." Tom Doherty Associates. New York. ISBN 0-312-87515-0 page 64.)Click here for Smith's website.
Bruce Maccabee:
UFOlogist Bruce Maccabee investigated the New Zealand UFO sightings of December 1978. It is reported that Maccabee met with Kit Green at the CIA in 1979 when he briefed a number of CIA personnel on the New Zealand events. (Source: click here.)
Vallee:
I seem to recall that the diaries of Jacques Vallee contain some entries about Kit Green. I will dig out my copy of Vallee's book and report.
Comment:
Green seems to have retained his interest in UFOs since his CIA days in the 70's and 80's. Have any readers information on what he was doing between 1985 and 2008? I'd appreciate anything you have.
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