Saturday, February 1, 2025

Things I learned from Jacques Vallee's "Forbidden Science 6."

 Introduction



Anomalist Books have just published the sixth in the series of Jacques Vallee's "Forbidden Science" diaries. It covers the years 2010-2019, and I understand it will be the final book in the series. Why are his diaries so important? They provide "written at the time" insights into the thinking and work of hundreds of UAP and other researchers over the time period and contain snippets of information that cannot be found elsewhere. This historical information will not be of interest to everyone, but it is to me, and that is why certain entries of the book are the subject of this article.

Bennewitz

The story of US UAP researcher Paul Bennewitz has been told many times, perhaps the best summary of his observations and ultimate mental demise can be found in "Project Beta: Paul Bennewitz, National Security and the Cration of a Modern UFO Myth" by author Greg Bishop. One of the aspects of Bennewitz's research is that he believed he was picking up alien transmissions. Research by Bishop and others revealed that instead, Bennewitz was picking up US military transmissions. However, I have never previously read what these terrestrial transmissions were. Vallee's book on page 169 reveals that Bennewitz was in fact picking up and misinterpreting "...classified links; he didn't realize what they were - downloaded Soyuz transmissions of biometric data our contractor was receiving."

AAWSAP Version 2

When the Advanced Aerospace Weapon System Applications Program officially finished in December 2010, the program managers looked around for a new home, outside of the Defense Intelligence Agency. "Kona Blue" was the name given to AAWSAP version 2 and was a proposed program within the Department of Homeland Security. However, "Kona Blue" never progressed. There was mention in the literature of an attempt to locate it elsewhere but until I read page 190 of Vallee's book, I wasn't aware of where else it was proposed to host AAWSAP version 2. 

In discussion with Colm Kelleher and Kit Green, Vallee states Green said:

"We thought it would happen with DHS (Homeland Security) after we lost our primary home, and then with Arete, but a third group is involved..."

Later, still on page 190, Vallee notes "First it was going to be Homeland Security, then Arete, then a Navy sub-entity..." 

A core group continued research

After the demise of AAWSAP in December 2010, Vallee maintained close contact with some of the BAASS personnel, including Kit Green, Eric W. Davis, Hal Puthoff, John Schuessler, George Hathaway and Bob Bigelow. This group, or a subset of its members, met regularly at a variety of locations which included Toronto, Austin, and Vienna to continue discussions on the phenomena. Short snippets of what they talked about are scattered over various pages of the book. 

David Hufford

Speaking of an event held in October 2014 at Esalen, Vallee refers to Professor David Hufford where Hufford:

"...described a pilot study of unusual experiences of combat veterans. He finds they have 50% higher experiences of sleep paralysis than the general population and 60% had 'visits from dead comrades"..."

I had not heard of this study. Sleep paralysis and associated hallucinations on the boundary of sleep and wakefulness have been put forward as an explanation for some abduction accounts. 

On the BAASS AAWSAP visit to Brazil

In a series of articles on this blog, French researcher Mark Cecotti and I outlined what we had been able to find out about the visits to Brazil by members of Bigelow Aerospace Advanced Space Studies organization which undertook the AAWSAP DIA program. Some additional details, of which the two of us were unaware, were revealed on page 308 of Vallee's book.

"In the last few days, my exchanges with the project have taken a new tone. In Brazil, the BAASS team was composed of six investigators who traveled across the country, interviewed 17 officials, including General Uchoa, and came back with a report that led to a conference at the Brazilian embassy in DC, attend by Hal, Colm, and Eric, all under Air Force 'sponsorship.' A security officer determined that distribution of the report, after review by a military group, would be closed.

Since I'm the only one of the group who met with Colonel Hollanda Lima and was briefed afterwards by his top security staff inside the Air Force base where the project was managed, I stand confused by all the obvious discrepancies. Many unreported details were shared with us, and we saw the original, secret data. I could have flagged errors and misquotes in late years. Now, I cannot even read 'our' full report, even though my friends confess 'it doesn't reflect reality.' Are they blind to the full story?

I had never previously come across a reference to this Brazilian embassy meeting, or what the agenda was.  

Vallee visits Brazil for the third time

A while ago, I wrote an article on investigative visits by US researchers, to Brazil. In that article I mentioned that Jacques and Janine Vallee had visited Brazil on two occasions to conduct research. So, it was of interest to note that Vallee undertook a third research visit to Brazil in July 2015 with his old friend Bill Calvert.

They visited the city of Fontaleza and there talked, inter alia, a local researched named Agobar whom Valle had met on a previous visit. Pages 311 to 323 provide details of Vallee's time in Brazil, interviewing both local researchers and UAP witnesses. 

When Vallee asked Agobar about the BAASS visit t Brazil in 2010, Agobar responded:

"I met three Americans at a conference in Sobral. They were taking lots of notes trying to make contact with the group from Rio but looking in all the wrong places."

Vallee learnt of new UAP cases in recent times as well as old cases.  

 DARPA

Speaking of medical injuries to individuals in certain UAP encounters on page 326, September 2015 we read:

"Five years ago, DARPA was briefed on the first 30 UFO patients studied, with signs of the inflammatory reaction in white matter and Virchow-Robin spaces. After the briefing, a very disturbed DARPA scientist in tears, told Kit; 'It's us! Technology from Sandia....meet me at a briefing room...' But when Kit got there the security personnel told him the session had been cancelled."

 Rendlesham

On page 334, Vallee writes of the work of UK researcher Isaac Koi on the 1980 Rendlesham/Bentwaters case from England.:

"Isaac spent two full months on the Bentwaters case and concluded it was a waste of time. It seems that an 86-year-old woman who lives in a cottage in Rendlesham forest had shot videos on both nights. Koi went to have tea with her, saw the videos, and then dropped the case. 'I questioned him,' my friend said "that was the only time Isaac seemed troubled. He said he couldn't talk about it, but it had nothing to do with Aliens. The answer would surprise me.'"

John Schuessler

Schuessler was an American long term UAP researcher who had been involved with BAASS on AAWSAP. As most readers of this blog will know, many of the visitors to Skinwalker Ranch claimed that "something" followed them back to their homes where they experienced poltergeist like activity and saw unusual animals. They gave the name of "the hitchhiker effect" to this phenomenon. I hadn't heard anything in this regard in respect of John Schuessler. However, on page 355 Vallee writes:

"The network brings news from John Schuessler about 'shadow people' in his basement library and storage area, again a scene worthy of Le Horla."

Physical analyses

One of the main recurring themes of the book is the examination of physical materials allegedly associated with UAP. So called "fragments." Many such analyses have been published in the literature. However, in the decade 2010-2019 more individuals became involved in this pursuit.  Of particular note is the involvement of Stanford University Professor Garry Nolan. Nolan and Vallee teamed up to conduct rigorous examination going beyond simple elemental composition of these fragments, moving onto determine the isotopic ratios of various elements they were made of. The book documents these efforts and findings.

Samples analyzed came from a variety of sources, including from Professor Peter Sturrock, individuals from Brazil and Columbia, and UAP researchers in the USA and witnesses in France. The results of the isotopic ratio tests were mostly close to the expected terrestrial ratios. However, some were abnormal, and these are discussed in the book. 

CAPELLA

The BAASS AAWSAP, under the direction of Vallee, created a data warehouse of 11 separate databases, which Vallee named CAPELLA. These have been described in detail in the two books authored by Lacatski et al, as well as in lectures given by Vallee. 

In 2022 I wrote an article suggesting that CAPELLA, copies of which lay with only BAASS and the DIA, had resurfaced. This was later confirmed by Lacatski.  On page 481 of Vallee's book, we find:

"In the meantime, an NRO senior officer, who'd resigned from Trump's staff last year as director of cryptography strategic planning, has joined the TTSA board last week. I'm told he may have kept a copy of Capella.'

Valle does not name this individual. However, the first place where CAPELLA resurfaced was on the website, PhenomAInon, the work of Joe Schurman.  

Vallee has an unusual experience

In a diary entry dated 27 October 2018 (pages 471 and 483) Vallee describes a personal unusual experience;

"Nine days have passed, uneventful, but something brief and terrifying happened last night, far more tangible than a nightmare. As I review it, I have to accept an experience outside my body. All I know is that in the middle of the night I found myself propelled away into the kitchen, a tall being between me and the window. I couldn't see a face, but it was tall like me, human-like, solid. A few seconds later woke up suddenly, back into my lying body, panting and whimpering, terrified. 

It had been absolutely, shockingly real No transition, none of that slow lifting of the soul people describe. I had been translated from the bedroom, standing up, next to the entity that hovered bear me without touching, yet encompassing me in a formidable presence. This is as close to a full out-of-body experience as I have ever had. it left me whimpering and scared." (page 471.)

" Then I think of the entity that pulled me out of my body on 27 October last year, and I realize that like a bad student, I failed to note some of the details. The unique feeling of terror has remained with me. There was no overt threat from the tall being, but the wrenching out of my sleep and of my body was brutal, as if I had been summoned to the place where we'd spent hours trying to set up 'precipitation experiments.' that we thought didn't pan out. We had carefully covered the southern-facing window with thick drafting paper, and we had used various devices to invite a materialization or an apport..." (page 483.) 

In summary

As with the other five volumes in the series, this volume provides fascinating bits of information, on both the phenomena and also those who research it. There are two excellent, detailed indexes to the material in the book, namely one for people and one for subjects. As I have with the previous volumes, after a while I will read this volume more slowly taking in the delights of Vallee's work and personal life experiences. 

Wednesday, January 22, 2025

Shoshin Works Webinar - 17 January 2025

Shoshin Works

On 17 January 2025, Shoshin Works held a virtual conference, titled "US Disruptive Deeptech, Energy and Space." Attendees were individuals from various universities, private companies, and a variety of government agencies. 

After an opening speech by Anna Brady Esterez, Mike Gold of Redwire Space provided a keynote talk on UAP. 

shoshinworks.sharepoint.com/:b:/s/ShoshinWorks/EWOTfcJICYFJhjjvP-uISUUB72O7UUKpzkha0AZ_1LDK9Q?e=8As23b

His talk covered:

* The history of selected global UAP cases.

* The 26 July 2023 House Committee on Oversight hearing.

* The 2004 Tic Tac incident.

* The 13 November 2024 House Committee on Oversight Hearing.

* The history of US government UAP investigations.

* The NASA Independent Study Team, of which Gold was a member.

* The New Jersey drones.

More on UAP

At 1 p.m. there was another session on UAP presented by Charles Chase of UnLAB LLC; Ryan Graves of StarSense and Richard Bandoric of Field Propulsions Technologies Inc. In addition, another keynote UAP talk was provided by Hal Puthoff of EarthTech International Inc. 

Chase's presentation included:

shoshinworks.sharepoint.com/:b:/s/ShoshinWorks/EXUMKZDoePZHiwTqRyFynVoBG7q1MXE69InUGMhe0oubjg?e=23pEhM

*"There are unexplored, undiscovered, and probably unsuspected ways of generating forces and energy."

* "Phenomena people experience."

* "Things we thought were impossible."

*" Areas of active research."

* "Fluctuation Flow Propulsion."

* "Coherent Matterwave Beam."

*"Existing optical and radar systems are limited in detection capability" and what to do about this. 

Hal Puthoff

The presentation by Hal Puthoff included:

* US UAP investigations.

* Advanced Aerospace Weapon System Applications Program.

* Soviet "Thread 3" project.

* More details on AAWSAP.

* "Can reported observations of UAP be accounted for on the basis of known physics?"

* "An Engineering approach to General Relativity."

* "SpaceTime metric engineering.

* Historical cases evaluation - Colares, Brazil.

* The 2004 Nimitz incident.

* The UAPTF.

* AARO.

* US Congressional actions.

Sarah Gamm

shoshinworks.sharepoint.com/:b:/s/ShoshinWorks/EcnxqqlyrmRBtSHLLYkzofEB2_anfVQM5lEXSHDjq8Gweg?e=nq5VBn



Later in the day Sarah Gamm presented a talk titled "UAPs and the Task Force" which included:

*Examples of UAPs observed.

* Balloons, birds and parallax.

* Dynamic gravity-based applications for communications, energy, space and defense.

* Generating gravity waves in the laboratory.

* Hoverr Inc - quantum propulsion.

* Harnessing the vacuum.

* Propellant-less propulsion.

Friday, January 17, 2025

The Sky Canada preview report

Recently, in mid-January 2025, the Office of the Chief Science Advisor of Canada released a 16-page report titled "Management of Public Reporting of Unidentified Aerial Phenomena in Canada: A Preview of the upcoming Sky Canada Report."

Sky-Canada-Preview-January-2025.pdf

Commencing with "A Message from the Chief Science Advisor of Canada,' where Mona Nemer, inter alia, writes:

"...this report focuses on the services available to the Canadian public for reporting UAPs, and not the UAPs themselves; understanding this distinction is critical to reading the report..."

The Sky Canada project team went about its business by gathering information from:

 "...federal departments and agencies, stakeholders, experts and other organizations, on how UAP observation reports by the public are handled in Canada."

Publicly available records, archives and historical practices were examined. "We reviewed he approaches taken by a few other countries, mostly G7 nations and members of the Five Eyes." Additionally, a company named Earnscliffe Strategies conducting an online survey of Canadians re their views on UAP.

Key findings

1. Canadian federal departments and agencies do receive UAP reports, with few investigating the nature of the sightings unless their specific mission has hem do so, e.g. Transport Canada for aviation incidents. 

2. The project identified a number of "gaps."

a. Lack of a cohesive and standardised systems for reporting and follow up.

b. Absence of public engagement.

c. Limited analysis of UAP reports.

d. Insufficient scientific involvement.

e. Modest efforts to enhance scientific literacy involving planetary sciences.

3. The project examined the management of UAP reports in the USA, France and Chile.

Recommendations

Reports and data oversight

1. "...identify a lead: A Federal Government department of agency responsible for managing public UAP data, should be identified...The Canadian Space Agency could be considered for such a role."

2. "Establish a dedicated service...collect testimony, investigate cases and post its analysis publicly."

3. "Enhance reporting capacity in civil aviation." Transport Canada should encourage members of the aviation community to report sightings. 

Communications

4. "Support public dialogue" via a proactive strategy, using such services as public libraries, science centres and museums.

5. "Promote intra-government collaboration" via an internal directive.

6. "Improve media relations."

7. "Promote application of up-to-date evidence to effectively address misinformation and disinformation."

Research

8. "Facilitate open access and open data."

9. "Conduct surveys" to gauge the perception of the Canadian public about UAP.

10. Provide tools for data collection" via smartphone apps and interactive platforms.

11. "Build on Canada's strengths in astronomy and aerospace research."

12. "Information sharing with international entities."

13. "Cooperation in research and communications" with international partners.

Conclusion

"A more structured approach would enhance transparency and combat disinformation...position Canada alongside some of its allies as leaders in the global efforts to elucidate the nature of UAPs...potentially reveal valuable insight into aerial phenomena that are currently unexplained."

Saturday, January 11, 2025

Six "White Papers" and a "Policy Brief"

 White Papers

One of the aims of the SOL Foundation for Advanced Scientific and Policy Research is to produce a series of "White Papers." A "White paper" is:

"...a research based report which offers a formal description of a complex topic and presents the point of view of the author or body represented by the author."

To date, the SOL Foundation has produced a series of six "White Papers." These are:

Volume 1 Number 1. "Beneath the Surface: We may learn More about UAP by Looking in the Ocean." Author: Rear Admiral Tim Gallaudet (Retd.) March 2024. 

Volume 1 Number 2. "UAP in Crowded Skies: Atmospheric and Orbital Threat Reduction in an Age of Geopolitical Uncertainty." Author: The SOL Foundation, March 2024.

Volume 1 Number 3. "Unidentified Anomalous Phenomena" Policy Implications for the Government of the United Kingdom." Author: Helen McCaw. May 2024.

Volume 1 Number 4. "Anomalous Health Threats: Health Security Considerations for UAP." Author: The SOL Foundation. July 2024. 

Volume 1 Number 5. "NHI, UAP and the Catholic Faith: How will the Church Respond?" Author: Paul Thigpen. July 2024.

Volume 1 Number 6. "The Prospect of Executive Branch Unidentified Anomalous Phenomena Secrecy: The Ham to Congress and Potential Remedies." Author: Peter Skafish. November 2024. 

Peter Skafish People – The Sol Foundation

Policy Brief

The UAP Disclosure Fund's website states that it is:

 "...a non partisan nonprofit supporting UAP legislation, protecting whistleblowers, and raising public awareness for greater transparency."

One of its aims is listed as "Advocacy for policy change." Elsewhere on the website is found "Policy. Expert analysis and recommendations for advancing US policy on UAP and emerging technologies."

On 9 January 2025 the Fund released its first "Policy Brief" titled "Prioritizing Emerging All-Domain Technologies." It is authored by Luis Elizondo. The Policy Brief Summary reads as follows:

"This policy brief highlights one of the most pressing challenges to American and global security. Emerging All-Domain Technologies (EADT). EADT include Unmanned Aerial Systems (UAS, also known as drones), Unidentified Anomalous Phenomena (UAP, formerly known as UFOs), and certain other advanced systems operating across the air, space and sea domains that are capable of intelligence surveillance, reconnaissance and kinetic strikes.

Recent events like the drone incursions in New Jersey and the Chinese spy balloon incidents underscore a critical gap; The U.S. woefully lacks a whole-of-government solution to EADT. To solve this problem; this policy brief recommends that the President empower a White House Sebor Advisor, or "Czar," within the National Security Council to (1) coordinate the U.S. Governments EADT response, (2) formulate policy; (3) and conduct domestic and international outreach."

In summary, both the series of White Papers, and what is intended to be a series of Policy Briefs, aim to stimulate public awareness and discussion on the subject of UAP. In addition, they seek to make recommendations to those in the appropriate areas of the U.S. governments, on what the authors see as areas of policy need or change.  

Thursday, January 9, 2025

National Archives of Australia and the New Year

National Archives of Australia

For over 15 years now, on the first of January each year, I have checked the website of the National Archives of Australia (NAA,) for newly released Australian government files relating to UAP.

This annual activity followed the years between 2003 and 2008, when the Adelaide based Australian UFO Research Association (AURA) conducted its major exploration of Australian government UAP files. During those years, a large number of UAP related files were located via the NAA's search engine. Once a file was located, a digitized copy was ordered, paid for out of the pockets of AURA members. In those days each file cost between $25-50 to have digitized, as opposed to around $200 for a large file, today. 

Once AURA's work was completed as much as possible, annual inspections of the NAA website by myself and Melbourne based researcher Paul Dean, continued to locate a small number of UAP related files, each year, up to the year 2022. A list of files located up until May 2016, may be found here.  A reading of the files listed, reveals that there were an unexpectedly large number of different Australian government departments that kept UAP related files. A sense of what was on these collective files may be read here.  

An NAA document referring to the 1978 Valentich incident

The 2025 NAA search using various keywords

Were any newly released Australian government UAP files located in my 2025 annual search? Unfortunately, not. However, there still remain a few files which I located in previous years, and which I had the NAA examine and open them but have not had them digitized due to their cost. These are:

1. File series A9755, control symbol 9, title "[RAAF No. 92 Wing, Headquarters, Edinburgh, South Australia] Unusual Aerial Sightings [UAS] [UFO - Unidentified Flying Objects]" Date range is 1992-1994. Item ID 3533451. Held in Canberra. Formerly, a file of the Department of Defence.

2. File series A9755, control symbol 23, title "[RAAF Headquarters No. 82 Bomber Wing, Amberley, Queensland] Unusual Aerial Sightings. [UAS] [UFO - Unidentified Flying Objects]" Date range 1992-1994. ID 3533584. Held in Canberra. Formerly, a file of the Department of Defence. 

3. File series B610, control symbol 315/1/425 Part 1. Title "Airways Operations - Miscellaneous Rockets, Missiles, Space Craft and UFOs. AO Aspects." Date range 1977-1985. ID 24947317. Held in Canberra. Formerly a file of the Department of Civil Aviation.

4. File series P2864, control symbol Maatsuyker 1973. Title "Navigational Aid Station [Light station] Log book - Maatsuyker Island [UFO sighting]" Date range 1973-1974. ID 33094195. Held in Hobart. Formerly a file of the Australian Maritime Authority. 

5. File series C1342m control symbol 5/2/AIR Part 8. Title "Unusual Aerial Sightings [RAAF Williamtown] Correspondence Box 3." Date range 1983-1984. ID 24102990. Held in Sydney. Formerly a file of the Department of Defence. 

Two other 'Open" files waiting for someone to pay to have them digitized, relate to the possibility that flight 292 of the joint Australian/USA HIBAL radioactivity sampling mission, might be the explanation for the mass sighting at a school in Westall, Melbourne on 6 April 1966, are:

File series B595, control symbols 99/66/105 Parts 1 and 2. Title "US Project 'ash can' 'hibal' for sampling radioactive content of stratosphere." Both files have a date range of 1953-1977 and both are held in Canberra. ID are 23801655 and 23801656. Formerly files of the Department of Civil Aviation.

The current situation

The current attitude of the Australian Department of Defence is that they have no interest in the subject of UAP, hence they are creating no new files on the subject. Therefore, it is doubtful that any more Australian government UAP related files will be located in the NAA. So, it is likely that we have found all such files in the NAA. However, it should be noted that from time to time, the AURA project did come across a few files that were not in the NAA as they should be but were still held by Departments themselves. So, it is possible that diligent research utlising the Freedom of Information Act might just turn up a few more files. The trouble with this is that one would have to submit FOI requests to all current Australian government departments, a daunting task. 

Friday, January 3, 2025

Another 1990 observation of a "Calvine" like shaped object

Calvine

At about 9p.m. on 4 August 1990, near a locality named Calvine, in Scotland, two men are reported to have taken a series of photographs of an unusual hovering object, which after several minutes, took off vertically at speed. Much discussion and debate about the incident has occurred since then.

Logan

However, there is a lesser known 1990 sighting of a diamond shaped object, from a British Royal Air Force Airborne Warning and Control System (AWAC) aircraft, flying between Iceland and Scotland. Details of this other 1990 sighting became available during a very recent (2025) YouTube interview with host Harald Havas.

Courtesy Google maps

One of the witnesses to this other 1990 sighting was Lenval Logan. Logan, originally from the United Kingdom; in 1990 was in the United States Air Force and based in Germany. After his 20 plus year's service in the USAF, he spent 15 years as a U.S. government contractor. Included in this were several years as part of the U.S. Unidentified Aerial Phenomena Task Force (UAPTF.) Recently, he developed an app, named Phenom, to collect UAP data.

In order to present the other 1990 sighting details in Logan's own words, I have taken the liberty of  making a transcript of part of Logan's YouTube interview with Havas.

Transcript

"Stationed in Germany...we had the British AWACs show up and... why don't you come fly with us? And I did...I ran into my boss and said do you have a problem with it...go for it...this is in January 1990. So, I had just finished the Intel school.

We used to have a program in Europe called REFORGER which stood for Return of Forces to Germany. It was an annual thing...I happened to be on one of the last flights...we were on a flight coming down just past Iceland heading for Scotland to go to Rhein-Main at Frankfurt the Air Force base that was up there. I had what was called a Philadelphian cheesesteak {sandwich-KB}...the Sun was just coming up, and I/m bored, looking out the window, chewing on my cheese steak, and all of a sudden there's this diamond, arrowhead, looking thing, going in and out, zipping around and then going in the clouds. But when it would go into a cloud, it would change vectors inside the cloud and pop back out again.

And I was, like, 'Hey look at that' And then there was another guy who was eating a sandwich too. He was standing up. The two of us were sitting in a chair. We are all trying to watch this thing.

And you could see it was turning from, like, black and whiteish. I'm not sure if it was because there was water was on it, and there was a shine. But it was going in and out. We were like, 'What is that?' All of a sudden, I had this thought, 'this is probably one of our projects and I'm going to be doing the coolest job ever, so may be shut my mouth and just kind of ignore it.' And finally, it just kind of disappeared, it went into a cloud or something and I got to my unit. I waited for a while, you know, get comfortable, and then I went, we have what you call a weapons and tactics officer. I talked to him and said 'Hey, so what's it out there that's doing all this weird stuff?' He looked at me like I was an idiot. 'I don't know of anything that does that.' 

Now, this is at the end of the Belgian wave, and I didn't know anything about the Belgium wave. So, it didn't connect. Went to Desert Storm, came back from Desert Storm. So, when that British AWACs land and they actually go on board, I figured yes, that would be great, learn something new. Then while I was up there, I was, like, so, you guys see everything in the skies. They're like, 'Yeh.' I was like I have a question to ask you guys. 'What's out there that does the ziggy zaggy thing?' You know, real fast? 'They looked at me like I was an idiot. Finally, the guy says 'Show him.' 

And it was a map of Europe, and you could see all the aircraft flying around... All of a sudden, saw something go passing through real fast and I was like 'Yeh, yeh, yeh, yeh who's that?' ....It was like a video, like a recording, like a screenshot...I was like 'that guy.' And they were like "You know." I was like, 'No I don't know.' They were like 'Logan, come on you know.' 'Look, I don't know.' They said that is your SR-71 from back in the day. That was like 'That's not him.'

I was like, the one that does the ziggy zaggy thing. And they said Ok and he looked at his friend again and he goes 'Show him the other one.' And they showed me, again the same area, slightly different but same area and there's this thing. Every sweep of the radar he was somewhere else. And I was so excited I started cursing. I was like that that there. That guy, who is that? And they're like 'You know Logan." And I said 'Let's not go through that again. Who's that?' 'Come on Logan.' And they actually thought I knew; and I was like, I said 'I don't know who that is.' And I told them what I saw. Gave them more descriptive indication.

They said 'Logan we have been trying for ever, whenever we see this guy, to reach out to him on the radio. They never respond. We have vectored aircraft towards them, and they zip away. It was almost like, every sweep of the radar he was in a different position. I was like, 'so you mean you guys don't know who he is?' They're like "no, they said, we just figured it was you Americans playing trick on us.' I was like, I said,' hold on a second. So, you know that this guy exists. Does your squadron know?' 'Yes, it's a joke, it's a joke in the squadron because everybody knows.' I was like 'Nobody doing anything about it? 'I said we got to protect the airspace all the other stuff...how are we supposed to protect from someone who won't answer, and we can't even get close to them?' ...after that mission was over, I thanked them and I said it was one of those things that stayed in the back of my head, that if I ever get the chance to know anything more about this, I want to look into it...

The host then asked did they see this on multiple times? Logan responded, multiple times on their radar screen. Got to the point that they started to ignore it because they didn't know what else to do. The host then refers to a photograph the Calvine object, and asks if Logan saw it in one position? Logan said that 'I saw it from the front. From the side. I saw it from the back. but it was never really like at an angle or anything like that. So, when James asked me when was this? I said January 1990. He said later on there is something I want to show you. He sent it to me, I said oh crap where did you find this, and I said this is the exact same thing I saw. And he was just as surprised as I was, because he said this is the Calvine UFO video, picture and I was like, tell me more about it. After that, I went and read up and figured out what he was talking about. I was like, James, I saw this. This is the one that I saw."

Other information 

Other pieces of information which came out.  He watched his January 1990 object for something like five minutes. He didn't see anything escorting it. He doesn't know what altitude his AWACs plane was at but guessed at 30.000 feet. The object was below the AWACS aircraft but not at a steep angle. Didn't have a scale of size so couldn't estimate the object's size. Description like 'It looked like every angle, every corner, had the diamond shape...it wasn't moving conventionally.'

Things I learned from Jacques Vallee's "Forbidden Science 6."

 Introduction Anomalist Books have just published the sixth in the series of Jacques Vallee's "Forbidden Science" diaries. It...