Tuesday, February 17, 2015

UAP dives at car - the 27 July 1965 Carnarvon, Western Australia - incident

Hi all,


One of my long term projects has been that of maintaining a 100 plus page, master listing of the more interesting Australian UAP cases throughout the years. The current Internet version may be read here.

However, I am constantly updating entries, as I come across additional original material. At the moment I am working on cases from the 1960's using a copy of James E McDonald's handwritten interview notes from his 1967 visit to Australia. There is much unexplored material here, for anyone willing to spend time reading this fascinating material.

NICAP version of the Carnarvon incident:

"Australian encounter.

During the first week of August, two residents of Nedlands, West Australia jumped from their car, fearing a UFO was about to hit it. It was close to 8pm, and Dr Antonin Kulka, formerly a physician in Europe, and Mrs Audrey Lawrence were driving near Carnarvon when a flying object dived towards their headlights. Dr Kulka hurriedly stopped and switched off the lights. As he and Mrs Lawrence ran to the side of the road, the UFO stopped and hovered over the highway.

'It was rocking gently' Dr Kulka said later. 'And its orange color as it dived had changed to a fluorescent green, glow.'

The doctor's bull terrier, usually first out of the car when it stopped, was crouched in the back seat, hackles up. It refused to budge.

Dr Kulka said the object was shaped like a 'squashed football.' "I had the fear that whatever it was, it was not man-made' he reported after the UFO had left the scene.

The sighting appeared partly confirmed by resident Ron Butler owner of nearby Mooka station. Butler said that his entire camp had been lit up by a greenish glow when 'something' passed over it, though he could not be sure of the time."

(The source of the NICAP article, which appeared on page 4 of the Aug-Sep 1965 issue of the NICAP "The UFO Investigator" newsletter, was not given.)

Map showing Carnarvon and Gascoyne Junction

Details from McDonald's interview:

James E McDonald's hand written notes (courtesy of Dr Michael Swords' file collection) showed that McDonald interviewed both witnesses by telephone on 4 July 1967. His notes included the following information, which greatly expands on the NICAP material.

Section of McDonald's notes


* Driving from Carnarvon to Gascoyne Junction, Western Australia. (Suggests witnesses were heading east at the time - KB)

* Time was between 7.30 and 8pm local time (GMT plus 8hrs - KB)

* Total 30 minutes (total duration of event? - KB)

* Travelling with his fiancée Audrey Lawrence

* Started with a green light in the sky.

* He first thought it was an aircraft, fiancée said nothing ... till light disappeared and he asked her if she'd seen it and she so indicated...

* After a few minutes suddenly the light changed course and dived directly towards them. Red glowing light

* Threw hands up and put brakes on

* She frightened and both got out and ran into bush

* How close? About 1/2 to 3/4 mile

* After 10 minutes went back to car for monocular. Watched it for 5 minutes in monocular. Handed monocular to fiancée she looked

* It looked clear edged, sharp, like football. Hovering and manoeuvring. Rested monocular on car

* Size? Hard to tell. Much longer than a few feet

* Oscillated around and up and down. Would have been from ground less than 100 feet

* Shape - squashed rugby football. Shadows. Lens shaped. Symmetrical. Glowing like fluorescent tube. Changed to orange color when moving

* When they stopped car and engine it changed to fluorescent green

* How disappear? After hovering and looping left to right and up and down for at least 20 minutes. When it disappeared it shot off horizontally to east, ie to the sea


* She said object they'd seen on 7/27/65 looked at first take green satellite, changed from W to E direction after it turned due south, then heading due north, and dived at car and headed at them. He threw hands off steering wheel. Changed from green to an orange-red at fastest it was close

* Circled three times after diving and hovering over the middle of the road 20 feet up. very hard to tell, she felt but less than 1/4 mile

* When circling it lit up tops of two trees 18-20 feet. "EIDGIDGEE"

* Watches stopped for exactly the half hour

* Dog ...no psychological effects. Completely cured her ulcer for several days. Should have been opposite effect.

*Car engine? Took a bit longer to start the car when got back in. May have been...took a half a minute to start it, and object gone by then

* Kulka still sceptical. But she is interested and is sure it is something from elsewhere."

Newspaper article:

I came across a copy of an unsourced, undated newspaper article about the event, on page 18 of the Australian Flying Saucer Review (Victoria) number 4, dated December 1965. Included in the article was the following additional information:

Unsourced, undated newspaper article

* Kulka was aged 43 years

* They were on a rock hunting trip

* Kulka lived in Bedford Street, Nedlands, Perth, Western Australia

* The incident occurred 12 miles north of Pimbie Station

* No sound was heard at any stage

* He had a camera in the car, plus the monocular

* The time of the event was 7.40pm

* The night sky was fine, with a few scattered clouds

* Their vehicle was a Land cruiser

* Initially a green light was seen moving slowly then disappeared into cloud

* Some minutes later they saw an orange light

* When at about 40 degrees elevation, the object changed course with a right angled turn and then dived towards the car

* It was glowing red when it approached their vehicle

* At times the object descended below the tree line then reappeared

* At times it hovered in a  banked attitude, other times on edge

* Mooka Station owner, Ron Butler - entire camp lit up by a greenish glow. He heard a "roaring hissing" sound


1. All the above information now paints a better picture than just the original NICAP account.

2. There is a Pimbee Station, in the Gascoyne region, but no Pimbie Station. Pimbee Station is at latitude 25deg 30min south and longitude 114deg 54min east. This is in the correct location, just south of Gascoyne Junction.

Update: 14 November 2016

I can now add a summary drawn from an audio interview which McDonald conducted in 1967, with the two witnesses. Here is the summary:

" Identification Code/CD Number: 3T1S103/CD53
Date Recorded: July 1967
File Size: 28.2 MB
Interview Duration (m:s): 29:22
Interview Details: James McDonald interviews Antoin Kukla and Audrey Lawrence
Sighting Date: 27 July 1965
Sighting Time: Ca 1730hrs
Location of Sighting: Near Carnarvon, Western Australia, Australia
Duration of Sighting: Ca. 30 minutes
Witness(es): Antoin Kukla and Audrey Lawrence


Antoin Kukla was interviewed first.

The couple were driving towards Gascoyne Junction, and had their Bull Terrier dog in the vehicle.  Antoin saw a green light in the sky which he thought was an aircraft.  His fiancée didn’t say anything at first, then when the green light disappeared she asked if he had seen what she had seen?  They continued driving and after two minutes, suddenly, they saw an object.  He braked the vehicle, and they both got out.

He estimated the object was a half to three quarters of a mile away (one kilometre).  After about ten minutes he went back to the car and got out a monocular to view the object.  It filled the field of view of the monocular.  He watched it for five minutes, then handed the monocular to his fiancée.  He was unable to estimate the size of the object, apart from being big, perhaps bigger than a few feet (one metre).  All this time it oscillated in the sky.  He thought it was approximately 80 feet (24 metres) high.

In shape, it appeared like a rugby football, being symmetrical about its axes.  When it was moving, its colour changed to red.  When the car was stopped, it was green in colour.  Finally, after moving up and down, and from side to side, it moved to the west.  The next day they visited the location where they saw the object and found nothing to explain the sighting.  They were terrified.

Antoin recounted another sighting made by men at the property of his fiancée’s brother.  He claimed that the Bureau of Meteorology and the Carnarvon tracking station had also observed this object.

Audrey Lawrence was then interviewed.

Audrey had told her brother the story of what happened to Antoin and herself.  Later, her brother said that some Aboriginal workers on his station had seen a, ‘Funny light,’ come from the south-west, high in the sky.  There were two long tracks in the sky.  It travelled across the sky and had been visible for 30 minutes.  Someone had telephoned the Carnarvon tracking station and been told that they and the Bureau of Meteorology had seen the light.

When it got overhead of the brother’s property it appeared to be going straight up, towards the Moon, and then disappeared.  It was seen over a very wide area, from Carnarvon to North Hampton and Port Headland.  The sighting was not reported in the newspapers.  Television station Channel 9 had got the whole story but it was all ‘hushed up’ and presented at night around the end of 1966.

During their sighting the object initially looked like a green coloured light and then it disappeared.  It then appeared as an orange coloured light.  They stopped the car, and saw it in the north, travelling from west to the east.  It grew from, ‘Bread and butter plate, size to three feet across (one metre).’  Antoin said that he thought it would crash.  It dived at their car, and kept ahead of them.  It circled three times and came back to its original position.  It hovered over the road at times, 20 feet (six metres) high.  When it was circling, she saw a green glow, that illuminated the tree tops.

During the event Antoin’s watch stopped for about 30 minutes.  Their dog was disturbed, and wouldn’t get out of their car during the event.  There were no effects on the car and no physiological effects noted by them."


  1. Do we know any more about the third witness? A totally independent witness adds considerably to the reliability of the case assuming it all ties up in terms of timing, location etc.
    My apologies if that is easily accessible information...other than a brief mention in Paul R Hill's book I haven't come accross this case before.
    Thanks also for the link to the 'best' Australian cases. I'm looking for a subset of extremely high reliability cases for my own analysis purposes and I'm rather too skewed towards the northern hemisphere and English speaking world, so hopefully this will help on one of those factors!

  2. Hi Anthony
    Hi Anthony

    Regretfully, I have been unable to find out any further information about Ron Butler, the third witness.

    Please let me know if I can assist with any details of Australian cases. My direct email is keithbasterfield@yahoo.com.au

  3. Thanks Keith...may well take you up on that in due course.


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