Dr. Garry Nolan
On 7 February 2022, Dr. Garry Nolan appeared on the "Engaging the Phenomenon" Podcast. Subjects covered included anomalous cognition, UAP materials and experiencers. The following are my notes on the interview. They are not meant as a comprehensive transcript.
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| Garry Nolan |
The notes
Garry Nolan (G): Science is not absolute. You should always be willing to be proven wrong at a later date. My methodology focus is on peer-review. Be careful about claiming you have a conclusion.
James Iandoli (J): You were visited by people from the CIA?
G: People from the government. Had a cohort of around 100 patients. Now, we understand that many of them had symptoms similar to Havana syndrome (1).
J: Is Havana syndrome attributed to UAP?
G: No. 80-100 patients. No explanation as to how they had come to be hurt. Range of symptoms. This was around 2012/2013. (2). handed it over to Kit Green. In 2018/2019 cases of Havana syndrome peaked. Kit realized that our patients had symptoms similar to Havana syndrome. Took them out of our cohort.
Co-incidently, findings re damage to brain. MRI of individuals made this clear it was in living tissue. Normal part of the brain. Hyperextended/over dense in some individuals. What's different about these people? (3).
High-functioning individuals-indicator of intellectual ability. I'm speculating it's to do with intuition? Lot of evidence that part of the brain is involved in intuition.
Needed a new data set. Working with a lab at Harvard in this area of the brain. What does it do? AI program looks at MRIs. It has validated Kit's findings. (4).
We have now submitted a paper to a Journal. There may be other areas of the brain which are also different in these individuals. Data set includes individuals on the autism spectrum and with schizophrenia. This is mainstream science and not related to UAP.
J: Contributed to, by Lue?
G: I met Lue about a month before the UAP videos were released. Got to know Lue and the whole crowd better.
Were Nimitz 2004 incident participants affected?
J: Were some people in the Nimitz incident affected?
G: There are good reasons why I shouldn't answer that.
J: Slide 9 - AATIP briefing slide has a line "cognitive human interface." Do you know what this refers to?
G: My understanding - these things can interact with us. No personal experience. Learnt that speculating is often taken by many people, as fact.
UAP related materials
J: Materials study from alleged UAP. Can you give us some background?
G: Mostly came from Jacques Vallee. Came with a story. Council Bluffs event. Good chain of custody. Primarily, is a non spectacular case. Point was to say this is how you do the research. Two years between paper's submission and publication. Time delay was due to me doing other work. There will be a number of other papers written up. Maybe someone will find something useful; there.
J: Any interesting material?
G: Ubatuba. (5). Anomalous magnesium. Two pieces came with separate chain of custody. To the eye, exactly the same. Took two samples from each piece. Analysis - two samples normal, and two samples odd. Could be 1) the result of a non-natural process or 2) downstream of an industrial proces which turned it into not normal.(6).
J: Better samples?
G: Someone in government has them but I will get hold of them. Don't know where they came from. Don't know why they are interesting. Developing a new instrument to analyse.
Biological affects
J: Biological effects. Kit Green's DIRD? (7).
G: Simple thing - don't get close to anything generating energy. Don't think there is anything magic in that advice. Cash-Landrum case. Travis Walton case.
J: Do you have any data on those cases?
G: No.
J; Chris Bledsoe said he got close to a UAP and his health was affected.
G: Met John Burroughs with Colm. John Burroughs had a claim of health issues. Kit helped him to get the medical care he needed. (8).
J: Hitchhiker effect? (9). Is that a trackable thing?
G: It's trackable. It's an inflammatory event. I need acute case - few days after the event. Take blood then.
J: Hitchhiker, can you verify goes from person to person?
G: Evidence of inflammatory event. Know of one case where hitchhiker tracked through a family, but no blood was taken.
J: Negative and positive events?
G: I was invited several times to go to the ranch, I refused. Zero interest in making myself a target.
CE5
J: Thoughts on 'contact' on a larger scope - CE5?
G: Set up a video and a brainwave machine and monitor. Don't just go into the desert and tell me it happened. You could set up such a study.
What ever it is, it has been going on for thousands of years. The phenomenon is not going to behave to your expectations.
J: There is a level of interaction - from personal experience.
G: To prove it on a scientific sense - record it, validate it. Use EEG.
J: Would you run such a study?
G: Other people are better positioned to do that.
J: What do you think of Jacques Vallee's control idea?
G: It makes sense. Galileo Project has the ability to collectd data.
J; You just recently signed on to the Galileo Project. What do you hope comes out of it?
G: In the best possibe world - would be able to track something.
J: What about Congressional hearings?
G: Can only be a good thing. Evidence of people's interest - the New York Times UAP article had the highest number of readers of any NYT article. Scientists want evidence. Collect data to be peer reviewed. I'm not a "true believer." I'm looking for evidence. At the very least, its a puzzle. At one level, I dont think that we are going to solve it in my lifetime.
J: What do you think of the hypotheses that its classified human tech?
G: If it is, shame on the people behind it for not sharing it.
J: What are some of the implications of that tech?
G: What is the energy source? Somebody could mis-use it.
J: Some speculation - if we are dealing with a non-human intelligence, what could we do?
G: Figure out its intent. Try and communicate with it. Hopefully it would make us realise that we have more in common with each other than not.
J: Speculation - out of all the UAP hypotheses, which is the coolest?
G: The notion that there is a greater reality. Maybe energy can be organised into ways other than matter.
J: Is it possible that we will create better tech to interact with UAP?
G: I hope so.
J: Do you think progress is being made?
G: Absolutely.
J: What would your parting words be for sceptics?
G: Be patient. No ridiculous answers. Non sceptics should challenge sceptics. They have a part to play.
J: Academics?
G: Is there money available for research? Lobby to have funds set aside for this research. If no money available, just do preparatory work.
J: What about the general public?
G: Organise. Get involved.
J: What can be done?
G: Organise. Lobby elected officials.
J: Disclosure day?
G: Don't think so. It's a slow realisation.
J: What would be the greatest thing to come out of all of this?
G: New tech to help people. Something that results in people not fighting.
Notes on my notes
(1) Havana syndrome. Is a cluster of health symptoms experienced, mainly outside the USA, by US officials and military personell. First reported in 2016 by US and Canadian embassy staff in Havana, Cuba. For a detailed discussion of symptoms and potential causes click here.
(2) If Garry Nolan was approached by some government people in 2012/2013 this was after the cessation of the Advanced Aerospace Weapon System Applications Program.
(3) For further information on what Garry was referring to here, please see my article on "Antennas, and Dr. Viola Pettit Neal."
(4) For some background reading in this area, see Kit Green's 2017 paper titled "Incidental MRI and Genomic Findings in Human Striatum: Implications for Behavioral/Cognitive Research."
(5) For more on the 1957 Ubatuba, Brazil incident, click here.
(6) For further detail on this, please take a look at my notes from the intervew Garry gave on the Soft Robotics Podcast.
(7) Kit Green wrote a document which was turned into A Defense Intelligence Reference Document, titled "Clinical Medical Acute & Subacute Field Effects on Human Dermal & Neurological Tissues."
(8) For more details about the experiences and UAP related health issues of Burroughs, I wrote an article about this in 2014.
(9) In the 2021 book, "Skinwalkers at the Pentagon" there is much written about the fact that some individuals who visited Skin Walker Ranch carried "something" back to their homes and their families. Who then experienced poltergeist-like, and othe phenomena.
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| Image courtesy of Amazon Books |
(10) Ever since certain US Congressional membrs were briefed on UAP, some have suggestedd that Conbgerssional hearings should be held. However, as at the date of this post there have been no such hearings.
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