Westall, the Department of Supply and Mr 'X' - a short part two

Background

In a previous post I discussed what we know of a tantilising story from the son and daughter of a high official in the former Australian Department of Supply, in relation to his knowledge of the 6 April 1966 Westall incident.

New material

Over my years of searching government archive material held by such agencies as the National Archives of Australia (NAA) and the National Library of Australia (NLA) I have learnt that these organisations are constantly making new material available. I thought it would be worth my while, spending some time, doing yet another search for any further material on Mr 'X.' This search proved to be very fruitful.

I now have found new material which:

1. Provides his University results from the years 1930-1934, when he attended University in Sydney and completed both a Bachelor's degree in Engineering (1st class honours) and a Bachelor of Science degree (2nd class honours.)

2. Gives a photograph of him in 1935. In order to ascertain whether or not anyone could deduce the identity of Mr X from this photograph, I used a number of web based reverse image sites to check if it is possible to determine the source of this image and thus reveal his identity. I was unable to find Mr X's real name from this image, and this is why I provide the photograph here. If you use "copy image address" you will only get "Capture_Photo_1935.JPG."

3. Advises that he was appointed as an Engineer in the Postmaster General's Department in 1937.

4. Shows that he moved to the Department of Civil Aviation in 1946, and became a Senior Airways Engineer.

All of this is consistent with the account of his career as conveyed in 2010 by his daughter.

5. I have also found some leads concerning positions within the general area of what became the Aircraft, Guided Weapons and Electronics area of the Department of Supply in 1967. In 1963 it appears to have been titled Aircraft and Guided Weapons Supply Branch, Department of Supply. Unfortunately, the archive material for this era, is currently not yet available. I have submitted a request to be advised when this material becomes publicly available. Hopefully, this will confirm the position within the Department of Supply which Mr X held on 6 April 1966.

I wish to thank my Sydney research associate, who wishes to remain anonymous, for giving me the idea to look in a particular part of the Australian government archives, where I located this new information.

If, perchance, Mr X's daughter or son reads this, I would appreciate if they would get in direct contact with me at keithbasterfield@yahoo.com.au.

Westall, the Department of Supply and Mr 'X'

Background

In a Facebook post dated 10 November 2017, and titled 'The troubled Public Servant,' Westall researcher Shane Ryan, reported that in 2010 he was contacted by a woman with some inside knowledge about the 1966 Westall, Melbourne incident, gained from her father.

In the post, Shane gave details of the contents of a number of emails from the woman (one from 2010, one from 2012) and her brother (one from 2012). The 2012 emails concerned the HIBAL hypothesis, but the important email is the 2010 one from the daughter, of the person I am choosing to refer to as Mr 'X.'

I have decided to annotate her words, rather than addressing points raised at the end of her text.

The email

'I am writing to you because I hadn't realised there were so many other witnesses to an event that my father was involved with in 1966. My father was the Assistant Controller of Aircraft, Weapons and Guided Missiles with the Department of Supply in Melbourne.

1. Shane found a Department of Supply Bulletin, in the National Library of Australia which confirmed that Mr X was indeed the Assistant Controller of the Aircraft, Guided Weapons and Electronics Supply Division of the Department of Supply in August 1967. We have not been able to confirm his position on 6 April 1966, the date of the Westall incident.

' He was a brilliant intellectual, Dux of High School, First class honours in Engineering and a science degree in Electronics all in 3 years. I mention this because he was not a fool, or someone who would dream up what he saw.

2. A check of the National Archives of Australia revealed Mr X's war records, which indicate he was an Engineer.

'I do not know how he was involved in the sighting of the object. He was, however told (by someone senior to him) that if he were to speak of this incident to anyone, he would lose his job.

3. A search of the Internet reveals that the immediate senior of the Assistant Controller of the Aircraft, Guided Weapons and Electronics Supply Division of the Department of Supply was in fact the Controller, of the Aircraft, Guided Weapons and Electronics Supply Division of the Department of Supply. On 6 April 1966, this was one Ian Bowman Fleming. He held the position between 1958-1967. Fleming was the director of the project which produced Australia's first unmanned target aircraft, Jindivik. Unfortunately, we are unable to seek any knowledge about Westall from Fleming as he passed away in 1993.

'He used to say that knew what he saw, he was very angry that this event was not seen as an opportunity. He was intimidated on a regular basis about what he saw by other officials and told that a person in his position could not be taken seriously if he were to speak of it. He was a respected point of contact for the Americans, French and Italians as they were all in the market for selling us their aircraft.

4. Here then, is an intriguing statement: 'this event was not seen as an opportunity.' One possible interpretation was a UFO was involved, with a potential opportunity to learn about advanced propulsion systems.

'I knew about the object he saw from very early on in the event, and I was also told not to speak of it to my school friends, teachers or anyone.

5. Earlier Mr X's daughter wrote: 'I do not know how he was involved in the sighting of the object.' Here she states: 'I knew about the object he saw.'  These appear to be contradictory statements. Did he see the object, or simply know of the incident? Was he at Westall that day? We will perhaps never know.

'I was 10 and after my father said we were not to speak of it, my mother continued to talk to me, mostly because of the torment my father appeared to be going through over this incident.

'My father came to work for the Department of Supply after he was approached for this position while manager of Civil Aviation in Sydney. He held this position from 1960-1968 then continued on in the position in Canberra until his early death in 1970.

6. Neither Shane nor I have been able to independently verify that Mr X held the position of Assistant Controller of the Aircraft, Guided Weapons and Electronics Supply Division of the Department of Supply between 1960-1968. We did however confirm that according to the 1966 Sands and McDougall directory, Mr X lived in Melbourne in 1966 and then via the electoral rolls confirmed he lived in Canberra in 1969 (the Aircraft, Guided Weapons and Electronics Supply Division of the Department of Supply moved to Canberra in December 1968 according to the Canberra Times newspaper of 27 December 1968 page 8.)

 'There may be some information to be found at Department of Supply. I'm so pleased to know there really was substance to what my father saw and I wish he were here today to know there were many others who felt as he did. He did a lot of secret work during the WW2 so he was very good at maintaining security for the good of the nation.'

In summary

The research by Shane and I indicates that Mr X lived in Melbourne in 1966; was the Assistant Controller of the Aircraft, Guided Weapons and Electronics Supply Division of the Department of Supply in August 1967; was an engineer, and moved to Canberra in December 1968. Unfortunately, neither Mr or Mrs X are alive today to directly discuss his knowledge.

I understand from Shane that he has had no contact with Mr X's daughter or son since 2012.

What do I make of all the above? It is no doubt a fascinating story, but it is hearsay. A clinical definition of hearsay is 'the report of another person's words by a witness, which is usually disallowed as evidence in a court of law.'

Although I am aware of the identity of Mr X; and his son and daughter; out of courtesy to Shane Ryan, my research hands are tied. However, I would urge Shane to attempt to recontact both the son and daughter and see if any additional information may have come to light since 2012.

Update

In a Facebook post dated 12 November 2017, Shane provided us all with additional information.

'In December 2012 some months after receiving an email from him, I was telephoned out of the blue by the son of the Department of Supply senior officer. He was calling on a mobile from a McDonald's in rural Queensland. I think now that he was checking me out over the phone as much as anything. However, he wanted me to know that as senior, and as sceptical, a public servant as his father definitely was, he was profoundly affected by what had happened at Westall.

He was of the opinion that his father had been at Westall as part of the response to the event. He even recalled the floor number of the building his father worked at in Canberra, which had some connection with D-Branch - which was a code for ASIO. Because of the son's work with Australian Federal Police intelligence, he explained that there was still some sensitivities for him in relation to all of this. He promised to call back with (sic) 48 hours...and I am still waiting for that call.'

My comments:

Now, let me say at the outset, that all of the above may be true, however a number of questions arise to which we currently do not have answers.

1. How did Shane know that the individual calling was Mr X's son?

2. How did Shane know that the call came from a McDonald's in rural Queensland? One can only surmise it was because the individual calling him, told him this?

3. Did the individual inform Shane of the floor number of the building in Canberra? Was Shane ever able to confirm this was the location of ASIO in Canberra in 1966?

4. I can understand that it would not have been possible for Shane to confirm the individual's statement about working for the Australian Federal Police. But, did the individual offer to produce any documentation to support this claim?

I appreciate, that for some individuals reading this blog, my insistence on fact checking and verifying information supplied, may well annoy them. However, think on this, we are being told that there was a government involvement and coverup in the Westall incident - a big story - surely this should cross checked in fine detail?

Additional material:

For a look at the work on a circular aircraft for the RAAF, by Squadron Leader Gordon Waller in 1966 click here.

For a look at an earlier post about ASIO and Australian UFO groups, click here.

For a detailed look at the involvement of the former Australian government Department of Supply, click here,  and here. 

Westall - a dissenting view

Introduction

We continue to hear references to the 6 April 1966, Westall school incident, in a variety of media outlets. Unfortunately, for us, these outlets, are simply using the event for their own gain. In almost all such instances, this is simply a matter of ratings and entertainment. UFOs are very newsworthy for this purpose. 

In my opinion, continuing to try and raise the profile of the incident, via radio, television, podcasts, newspapers, and websites, in the hope of officially confirming the nature of the incident, is doomed to failure. 

The year’s long search, for official Australian government documentary proof, has been unsuccessful. In addition, no one from the Australian Department of Defence (Army, Navy, and Air Force); ASIO, or any other government department has ever come forward to confirm what happened at Westall that day. These negative facts continue to fuel a ‘conspiracy’ perspective, when they may merely indicate, that there is no such ‘evidence.’ Indeed, I note that under the main title for the Westall66 documentary are the words ‘a forty-four year conspiracy.’ Suggestions of this nature do not help.

Closure

I have been told that Westall ‘witnesses’ need closure on what actually happened. However, all I see from my viewpoint, is frustrated individuals becoming even more frustrated and angry, e.g. the reactions on the Westall Flying Saucer Incident Facebook page to blog posts by myself on the HIBAL hypothesis (an idea to be debated); and to Paul Dean’s recent piece about Hazel Edwards’ testimony.

What is a ‘witness?'

I note the Facebook debate about what constitutes a ‘witness.’  Perhaps a better term would be ‘eye witness,’ someone who saw an unusual object. Then, there are other individuals who have knowledge relevant to an incident. Here, I would suggest, we might find people who an ‘eye witness’ told their story to (preferably at the time.) Police forces rely on such individuals to confirm the account of an ‘eye witness.’

Publish all available information

On the publicly available information (and if anyone has any addition information, please publish it for us all to debate and discuss) on the Westall incident, there is still much confusion as to basic pieces of data, e.g. (a) how many objects were present at around 10.20am that morning, or were subsequently present; and (b) the precise location of physical traces.  

There is no official Australian (or American) government information, and no Commonwealth government official has come forward to tell us what happened that day.  These facts need to be continually kept in mind, not summarily dismissed.

Large numbers of ‘eye witnesses’ do not necessarily increase the probability that something really unusual occurred that day. If you take a look at literature on ‘mass hysteria’ events at schools, you will get an overview of the difference between what was said by students/staff, to have happened, and what can be forensically reconstructed as having taken place, in these kind of events 

In summary

If after all these years of trying to get to the bottom of this incident, we haven’t succeeded; then perhaps it is time to let go. To close down the Yahoo Groups and Facebook Westall pages, and move on to other more profitable areas of UFO research. Offer closure to ‘eye witnesses’ by stop talking about the incident. Otherwise, I see we are simply in for years more, of the same circle.

Westall - and James E McDonald's files

Background

The late US researcher James E McDonald visited Australia in 1967. While here, he interviewed dozens of Australians about their UAP sightings, both by phone and in person.

Recently, the attention of Melbourne researcher Paul Dean and myself, was drawn, by US researcher Brad Sparks, to the University of Arizona's special collection MS412, of papers which had been gathered by McDonald.

On the University's special collections website there appears a listing of the contents of McDonald's boxes of papers. Among the listing for box one, is  a folder, 'Australian Miscellaneous Sightings: Slides, Sullivan, Westall School sightings.'

I am not aware of anyone who has accessed this folder. Therefore, I submitted an application to the University of Arizona to obtain a copy of the contents of the folder. After paying their fee, and waiting a few days, I received a WeTransfer of the contents.

What is in this folder?

1. 16 July 1967. 'The Sun-Herald' Sydney, New South Wales newspaper. Possible sighting of a flying saucer by Maggie Tabberer and Pat Firman.

2. 8 pages of 'Summary of Unusual Aerial Sightings reported to the Department of Air Canberra' 1960-1965. Sent by Peter Norris of Melbourne.

3. Envelope addressed to McDonald from VFSRS.

4. 30 Aug 1967. 'Mercury' Hobart, Tasmania newspaper. 'UFOs seen over state.'

    30 Aug 1967. 'Advocate' Burnie, Tasmania newspaper. 'Three UFO sightings.'

5. 5 May 1967. 'Bairnsdale Advertiser' Bairnsdale, Victoria newspaper. An earthquake in Victoria.

6. 30 Aug 1967. 'Advertiser' Adelaide, South Australia newspaper. '"Space systems" may be watching us.'
    30 Aug 1967. 'Examiner' Launceston, Tasmania newspaper. 'We are being watched.'
    30 Aug 1967 'The Mercury' Hobart, Tasmania newspaper. 'Scientist claims eyes from space may be watching.'

7. 25 Aug 1967. 'Advocate'  Burnie, Tasmania newspaper. 'UFOs seen by four.'
    30 Aug 1967. 'Telegraph' Sydney, New South Wales newspaper. 'Saucers.'

8. Envelope addressed to McDonald.

9. Letter dated 5 Sep 1967 to McDonald from Francis L Rose.

10. 4 pages re McDonald's appearance on ABC TV show.

11. 19 Mar 1967. 'Mail' Brisbane, Queensland newspaper. St George-Mitchell sighting.
      26 Mar 1967. 'Courier Mail' Brisbane, Queensland newspaper. 'Spotter in dark over 'saucer.''

12. 23 Mar 1967. 'Journal' Traralgon, Victoria newspaper. 'What is the noise?'
       11 Mar 1967 'Sunraysia Daily' Mildura, Victoria newspaper. 'What is it?

13. Undated newspaper 'We saw flying saucer over Hallam.'

14. 14 Nov 1963. 'Wonthaggi Express' ''More see a UFO.'

15. 31 May 1963. '?' newspaper, Sydney. 'Flying saucers just 'poppycock.''
      30 May 1963. 'News' Adelaide, South Australia newspaper. 'Object in sky not a meteor.'
      30 May 1963. 'Mirror' Sydney, New South Wales 'Mystery light over Canberra.'

16. 31 May 1963. 'The Age' Melbourne, Victoria newspaper. 'Mystery object in Canberra sky.'
      30 May 1963. 'Telegraph' Brisbane, Queensland newspaper. 'A saucer sighted by scientists.'
      31 May 1963, 'The Sun' 'Canberra saucer was vampire jet.'

17. Ballarat Astronomical Society 1965 UFO conference.

18. 2 pages. 'Experiences with UFOs' by W H Sloane.

19. 3 pages. Ballarat observatory.

20. Program. Ballarat UFO conference 1965.

21. 29 Jun 1967. Letter from W H Sloane to McDonald.

22. 10 Jul 1967. ? re WRE.

23. 21 Jul 1965. 'Telegraph' Sydney, New South Wales newspaper. 'The thing on the beach.'

24. 24 Apr 1965. Letter to VFSRS from Len Langford re sighting in September 1962.

25. 13 Mar 1965. 'Sydney Morning Herald' Sydney, New South Wales newspaper. 'My flying saucer-Keith Hooper.'

26. Uncited newspaper. 'Moon object pics.' Iron Duke ship photographs.

27. 31 Dec 1965. Letter to Paul Norman from Observatory Adhara.

28. 28 Jun 1967. Letter to McDonald from Sydney radio station 2GB.

29. 7 Nov 1963. 'The Express' Wonthaggi, Victoria newspaper. Bread carter sighting.

30. UK Flying Saucer Review article, Jul-Aug 1966 re Westall.

31. 21 Apr 1966. 'The Dandenong Journal' article re Westall.

32. Sheet - hand written note. 'Westall School. Misc notes 5/20/67. Aust FSR no 5 p13 for Greenwood's account.

33. 14 Apr 1966. 'The Dandenong Journal' 'Flying saucer mystery.'

Notes

As can be seen, the folder contains information about miscellaneous Australian sightings, but nothing of significance about the 6 Apr 1966 Westall event. However, it should be noted that McDonald did conduct a face to face interview with Westall witness Andrew Greenwood. To read a detailed summary of this 1967 Greenwood interview, click here

To read detailed summaries of all the 1967 Australian witness interviews by McDonald, compiled by Sydney researcher Anthony Clarke and myself, click here.

Westall - and the CSIRO

In a recent Facebook post, on the Westall Flying Saucer Incident Facebook page, Victorian researcher George Simpson made reference to an account where the CSIRO was reported to have removed soil from a location in Westall.  I had previously explored the UFO interest of one CSIRO scientist, who actually investigated the 6 April 1966 incident. Below I repost my 2015 blog post on this scientist.

Felician Andrzej Berson - the CSIRO - and his interest in UAP

Introduction:

There are scattered references, in the civilian UAP literature, to the interest of an individual named Dr. F A Berson, who worked for the Commonwealth Scientific and Industrial Research organisation (CSIRO). I thought it might be useful to bring these references together, hence this post.

Dr F A Berson
(Source: Garratt, J et al.  "Winds of Change." CSIRO publishing. 1999. Out of print.)

Biography:

Firstly, before investigating his interest in the subject of UAP, I present a biography which I found in an article "Clouds on the Horizon" written by Berson himself, which appeared in  volume 72, number 2, February 1991 of the Bulletin American Meteorological Society.

Berson decided to study meteorology and qualified for his doctorate in 1934; then worked at the Swedish Meteorological and Hydrological Institute; followed by the Polish State Meteorological institute until 1939. Berson then moved to England where he joined the RAAF as a meteorologist, during the second world war.

In 1946, one of the items on his research list concerned cold fronts. After the war he accepted a post with the Swedish Meteorological and Hydrological Institute. Berson writes that at one point (about Carl-Gustav Rossby) "He appreciated the fact that I had imagination and was anything but institutionally inclined, he also enjoyed the eccentric behaviour I displayed on occasions.  p.208.)

In 1952 he "...applied to join the rapidly growing group of English wartime colleagues led by C H B Priestley forming the section (later Division) of Atmospheric Physics in the Australian Commonwealth Scientific and Industrial Research Organisation (CSIRO) at Aspendale near Melbourne." (p.210.)

Between 1953 and 1974, when he retired, Berson worked at the CSIRO, and was known as Andgei to his colleagues. He researched cold fronts, Antarctic circulation; quasi-biennial oscillation; convective systems and interpreting radar echoes. During this time he worked for a period at the International Antarctic Analytical Center, and another period of time at the US Weather Bureau in Washington, DC. He also spent time at NCAR's National Hail Research Experiment at Boulder and Grover, Colorado in the US.


Ca. 1956:

According to Berson himself, in a letter, dated 28 November, 1966, to Robert Low of the famous Condon Committee, he became interested in the topic of UAP around 1956:

"It was in fact Mr Groodin who first got me interested in the subject. This was some ten years ago. I have since had one or two contacts in this matter, with Government departments, but have established closer contacts with a private agency in Victoria in an endeavour to find out what they were up to and whether scientific research was feasible."

According to Garratt, J; Angus, D and Holper P. (1999. "Winds of Change." CSIRO publishing, page 13,)  Ivan S Groodin was working for the CSIRO's Atmospheric Physics section from 1953, and was there at the time Berson joined that same section.

Ivan S Groodin in a group photograph.
(Source: "Winds of Change." CSIRO Publishing. 1999.)

March/April 1963:

Dr Berson investigated the 15 March 1963 Willow Grove, near Moe, Victoria, case. In an interview between Peter Norris of the Victorian Flying Saucer Research Society, and the witness, Charles Brew; Brew says:

A. "...the CSIRO were here and number one question as far as they were concerned - he asked me did I get a headache. I said..."

Q. "What did the CSIRO man say? Incidentally, do you know his name? What's his name?"

A. "Er, Mr Berson. Yes, Mr Berson was his name."

Q. "And what did he say about the headache?"

A. Well, he said, 'that ties in with what our theory, we always had the impression that it was ..." (what would you say) he gave me the impression it was electro-magnetic or something to that effect - that's beyond me - but he said that would more than likely cause a headache  and it certainly took all day to get rid of it, anyhow. I know that."

Q. "What else did the CSIRO do?"

A. " Well, as I said, he took away samples of rock - they were very interested in that - because he said being a sort of an ironstone, it may have some attraction for it. And there is the reef as I said..."

Q. "How long after the sighting, did the CSIRO come down here?'

A. "They were here about 4 days after..."

On 8 April 1963, Dr Berson wrote to Sylvia Dutton of CAPIO, advising that:

"I visited Mr Brew in company of a friend of mine, but we did not take any rock samples. But I know that somebody else did. To obtain more information about the mentioned sighting, please contact the RAAF Department of Air, Canberra who are investigating this case." 

The following is from a letter from Berson to Robert Low, dated 11May 1967:

"...among them a sketch of the distribution of total magnetic intensity (as recorded by an AN/ASQ-1 airborne magnetometer installed in a DC3 aircraft) in a part of Gippsland surrounding the site of the Willow Grove sighting."

Later, in the same letter Berson suggested:

"Following a discussion with a geophysicist in the Antarctic Division of the Department of External Affairs I venture to suggest to you that a statistical investigation should be made on the following lines: place and/or time of (low level?) sightings of high credibility rating be correlated with magnetic data such as the three hourly geomagnetic k index at observatories and the world-wide kp index." 

Who was Berson's companion on his visit to Moe in 1963? Berson mentioned he was accompanied by a Mr Clarke. On the website for the Encyclopaedia of Australian Science http://www.eoas.info/P003236b.htm I found the following information:

Reginald Henry Clarke ( (1914-1990) joined the Bureau of meteorology in 1940, and then joined the CSIRO's Division of Atmospheric Physics at Aspendale in 1957. He retired in 1978 and passed away in 1990. One of his research interests was the subject of tornadoes.



Reg Clarke
(Source: "Winds of Change." CSIRO Publishing.1999.)

19 September 1963:

On Thursday 19 September 1963, Berson had his own sighting. I found the following information in an interview between Berson and James E McDonald dated 29 June 1967.  As far as I can ascertain he was at home in Mt Eliza, Melbourne at the time. He was with his son, when they noticed a cherry-red light in the sky. Far from being a point source of light, he estimated it had an angular size of one quarter of a degree, i.e. half the diameter of the full Moon.

The object appeared stationary, and there was no associated sound. He went inside the house to fetch binoculars, but when he came out, his son said that the object had formed two objects, and disappeared.

There was a newspaper report that an object was also reported from the Melbourne suburb of Dudley South at the same time. He checked the azimuth direction of his observation (it had been near a tree or similar object) and the track passed over Dudley South. He deduced that the object was not a balloon, or a hoax.

I found additional information on page 77 of the book by Michael Hervey, titled "UFOs over the Southern Hemisphere." (Click here.)

"On September 19, 1963, at approximately 8pm, the VFSRS received a telephone call from a man living at Mt Eliza. He and his family had watched an unusual object in the sky a little earlier that evening. The object, about 20 to 30 degrees above the horizon, appeared blood red  and was blinking on and off. It seemed larger than a star and made no sound. The object disappeared in a slightly easterly direction." 

"The Express" Newspaper of Wonthaggi, Victoria in its 26 September 1963 edition provided some other information. At 1845hrs South Dudley children at a playground saw an object. An orange ball was seen to the west. There was no sound. Tom Lymer reported "It was flashing on and off like an aeroplane light" but bigger and brighter. It was moving much slower than an aircraft. Suddenly flame shot out and it travelled at a tremendous speed. It was lost for a while then picked up to the south, hovering. Tom Ruby said that after hovering and still flashing on and off, it moved over the sea and disappeared. It was reported that television reception was affected.

The Australian Flying Saucer Review, May 1964, page 1 said that a John Waters, 17 saw two objects. "One appeared first, travelling in an area but not stopping, and the second object came over a little higher and followed the same trajectory." Mrs Sutton said that the Mt Eliza man's object was travelling in a south to south-east direction. Mrs Sutton checked with the RAAF, weather bureau and the Department of Civil Aviation and said that there were no balloons, kites, planes etc in the area at the time.

McDonald in his handwritten notes of interview with Berson wrote that the object was "Not blinking. Review is in error."


April 1966: The Westall incident:

In Ann Druffel's book on James E McDonald, "Firestorm" (click here) she wrote that

"Dr Berson had done his own investigation of the Westall High School sighting. He'd called Moorabbin airport also, but had been told he would have to call four separate companies in order to try to track down the source of the five Cessnas! He'd learned that students at Clayton school had also seen the object at the same time. he went to the Department of Air, but was given no information. There he was told by an aviation instructor, "We have a sub-chasing aircraft with very bright lights that can be misinterpreted."  The Australian officials were reaching as far afield for 'explanations' as project Blue Book."

Berson himself refers to this incident, in a letter to Robert Low dated 28 November 1966. In part it reads:

"On another occasion I established the fact that a similar D.A. team had appeared so quickly on the scene of a sighting made by a group of school children and a teacher in the vicinity of an aerodrome as to make one believe that they had some foreknowledge.The teaching staff was asked by the DA men to "play it down" and the sighting was promptly ridiculed, but quite independently another group of people had reported the unusual phenomenon from the opposite peripheral area of the aerodrome." 


July 1966:

An article titled "The Tully Nests: How freakish can whirlwinds be?" appeared in the Australian Flying Saucer Review, number 5, dated July 1966 pages 3-7. The article was "written by a member of VFSRS who has been connected with studies in atmospheric sciences." The references include an article by Reg Clarke. This may have been written by Berson.


May 1967:

In the McDonald archive section of Dr Michael Swords' digital file  collection, I found a letter dated 26 May 1967 to Dr Berson from James E McDonald. McDonald advised Berson that he was visiting Australia in June and July 1967. In part it read:

"I am now convinced it is a problem warranting greater increased scientific attention by a much larger group of workers...In going over one account of the Brew case, near Moe, Australia, I have noted that you are cited as a CSIRO investigator who looked into that interesting case. I should like very much to discuss that and any other Australian cases of which you have direct knowledge...I should like very much to speak to some of the CSIRO meteorologists about this entire problem...I might mention that I know...Priestley and Swinbank of your group."


June 1967:

Also in Swords' files is a letter dated 10 June 1967 from Sylvia Sutton, CAPIO to McDonald. In part it reads:

"The Chief purpose of this letter is to invite you to dine at my home...Dr Berson of the CSIRO, with whom you have been  corresponding, has become a good friend of my family...so I have invited him and his wife to join us. He was particularly pleased about this because he would have liked to arrange some social occasion at his own home at Mt Eliza but due to the travelling distance, this rather ruled it out..."

McDonald met Berson on a number of occasions whilst in Melbourne, Victoria.

In the Australian journal of James E McDonald I found an entry dated 29 June 1967:

"then to Berson office to see geomagnetic anomaly at Brew site, and interviewed Berson re his Sep 19, 1963 sighting. Met Eric Webb who's been interested in UFOs (?) for some time but not until few weeks back did Berson learn of that..."

Eric Webb also worked also worked for the CSIRO.



Eric Webb
(Source: "Winds of Change." CSIRO Publishing. 1999.)

Another McDonald entry dated 30 June 1967  read:

"Phoned Berson. He wants me back. Priestley back and quite interested."


July 1967:

Another entry dated 4 July 1967 reads: "Paul and Geoff drove me to the CSIRO, Aspendale, met Priestley and Deacn (?) and Dyer."


CSIRO files on UAP:

The National Archives of Australia holds two relevant CSIRO files. File series A9778, control symbol M1/F/31, date range 1952-1957 is titled "Flying Saucers."

File series A852, control symbol HM1/30 titled "Miscellaneous Enquiries - General - UFOs."

 Is there anything on these files about Berson's UAP interests, or indeed about that of Groodin? I failed to find anything, however there were three items of general interest:

1. A memo dated 26 June 1968 from the Department of External Affairs addressed to the Secretary, Prime Minister's department, Canberra cc'd to Dr D F Martyn. Officer in charge, Upper Atmospheric Section CSIRO, about the Condon committee in the USA. However, the Upper Atmospheric Section was in Camden, New South Wales and not Aspendale, Victoria.

2. In the period 1959 to at least 1965, a copy of UAP reports were sent to the CSIRO, from the Department of territories (Papua New Guinea). There is no mention of which section/division of the CSIRO they ultimately ended up with.

3. A memo from the Department of Air, to the CSIRO dated 28 November 1968 advised that:

"During the course of an investigation into the unusual sightings made by Mr A S Ricketts of Baccus Marsh, Victoria, it was learnt that a 'team of CSIIRO scientists" had visited him on 7th July 1966. This Department would be grateful for any information on this visit that could be of assistance in assessing the origin of Mr Rickett's sightings."

 On 5 December 1966 the CSIRO replied:

"I have made inquiries from several likely CSIRO Divisions, but with negative results."

RAAF file 580/1/1 Part 6, held by the National Archives of Australia reveals a detailed investigation report on multiple observations by Mr Ricketts. It included:

"Mr Ricketts had a visit from a team of CSIRO scientists who saw something but would not confirm that this that this was a UFO. Mr Rickett's would not divulge the names of the CSIRO scientists."

Westall - document located which shows there was a HIBAL launch on 5 April 1966.

Introduction

One non-UAP hypothesis put forward by myself, for the 6 April 1966 Westall incident, was that the object(s) sighted, was/were the payload and parachute of flight 292 of a joint research program, between the US Atomic Energy Commission and the Australian Department of Supply, called HIBAL.

Evidence of launch?

One of the counter-arguments put forward concerning this hypothesis, was that no documentary evidence could be produced to show that flight 292, scheduled for launch on 5 April 1966 from Mildura, Victoria, had even got off the ground.

I had located a tentative schedule of launches for HIBAL for April 1966, which showed four proposed flights on the 5th, 13th, 19th and 21st April. [Source: National Archives of Australia file series B411, control symbol 70/2919 part 4, page 50.]

However, I failed to locate any actual launch dates for April 1966. This caused Sydney based researcher Bill Chalker, to write on his Ozfiles blog dated 10 August 2014, 'No documents have been found that even confirm that the scheduled 5 April 1966 launch took place.' 

Yesterday, while browsing the Internet, I came across a document titled 'Health and Safety Laboratory. Fallout Program Quarterly Summary Report' dated January 1, 1968.

Upon examining the several hundred page document, I came across page 318, which provided a table showing that the April 1966  HIBAL launches had occurred on the 5th, 14th, 19th and 27th. Launches were often rescheduled from proposed dates due to adverse weather conditions. HIBAL flight 292, launched on the 5 April 1966, and reached a height of 27,000 metres (88,600 feet).

Successful flight

So, I am now able to state, that the proposed HIBAL flight 292, scheduled for launch on 5 April 1966, from Mildura, did launch successfully, the day before the Westall incident.

Question

The question then arises, could a HIBAL balloon, its payload and its 13 metre diameter parachute, which was launched from Mildura on 5 April 1966 still be airborne/close to landing, on 6 April 1966? Normally, a HIBAL flight was only hours in duration.

On the 29 August 1969, there were numerous reports of a 'flying saucer' being seen in Queensland. A RAAF aircraft located the object over Millmerran, (near Brisbane) Queensland, at 6,000 feet altitude. It turned out to be a HIBAL balloon, plus payload, plus parachute, which had been launched from Mildura on 25 August 1969. [Source: NAA file series A703, control symbol 580/1/1 part 12, pages 96 and 99.] Here then, was a three day old 'runaway' HIBAL balloon plus its associated equipment.

In addition, it is known that in August 1966, a HIBAL balloon came down on a chicken farm near Bendigo, Victoria, having travelled at least 70% of the way from Mildura to Melbourne. [Source: Interviews by this author of two members of the actual HIBAL launch crew. 2014.]

So, yes, it is theoretically possible that the flight 292 balloon, payload and parachute, launched on 5 April 1966 from Mildura, Victoria, was carried by the known northerly winds, to Melbourne where it was sighted on the 6 April 1966.

Conclusion

The debate as to whether or not, there was a successful HIBAL launch from Mildura, Victoria, on 5 April 1966 is over. There was such a launch.

It must be clearly stated that no documentary evidence has been located proving that HIBAL flight 292 was near Westall on 6 April 1966. However, there is the suggestion that a HIBAL balloon was seen 40 kms north of Westall on the morning of 6 April 1966, gained from the observation of two individuals who saw a 'flying saucer' trailing a long hose like a vacuum cleaner. [Source: Shane Ryan.] The significance of the trailing long hose, was that HIBAL balloons were filled with gas using a long hose. This hose, attached to the top of the balloon, stayed attached to the balloon throughout its flight. A remarkable coincidence that a 'flying saucer' should have such a hose!

On the other hand, no documentary evidence has been found, to show that HIBAL flight 292 wasn't near Westall on 6 April 1966.

Westall research - this blog's contribution to the debate.

Introduction

From time to time, I receive comments from people, that they believe I have a negative approach to the subject of the 6 April 1966, mass sighting at Westall, Melbourne, Australia.

I inform such people that, like themselves, I have the right to my opinion as to the cause of the sighting that day. Unlike some individuals, I base my own opinion on having conducted research on the event. I was not there on the day, and ultimately, my opinion is based solely on what I have been able to find out, by communicating with Westall witnesses as long ago as the 1990's; by visiting the site, prior to the playground installation; by an examination of all the original source material I could locate; an examination of Australian government files; by looking for potential non-UFO explanations; by exploring topics such as memory recall in people; and applying all that I have learnt from many years of interviewing witnesses to sightings, all over Australia.

One of the few witness documents available from 1966 - image courtesy VFSRS

This blog's contribution to the Westall debate

Quite a few posts on this blog, have explored the Westall sighting. I have provided the following links for anyone who wishes to explore material relating to the event; much of which, you will not find anywhere else.

Photo by author

Blowing in the wind

Back in 2010, a series of posts appeared about the possibility that stratospheric balloons might cause some UAP events. Research found that certain Australian sightings did indeed, seem to have been caused in this way.

http://ufos-scientificresearch.blogspot.com.au/2010/11/cold-ufo-cases-stratospheric-balloons.html

http://ufos-scientificresearch.blogspot.com.au/2010/11/cold-ufo-cases-stratospheric-balloons_16.html

http://ufos-scientificresearch.blogspot.com.au/2010/11/cold-ufo-cases-stratospheric-balloons_19.html

http://ufos-scientificresearch.blogspot.com.au/2010/11/cold-ufo-cases-stratospheric-balloons_20.html

In 2011, some research was then undertaken on one specific stratospheric balloon project in Australia.

http://ufos-scientificresearch.blogspot.com.au/2011/02/cold-cases-project-hibal.html

HIBAL launch - Image courtesy of National Archives of Australia

The Corona spy satellite program and 'broken arrows'

Later, when information surfaced about the US Corona spy satellite program, there was a reference by Stanton Friedman, about that program, and the possibility of an association with Australia.

http://ufos-scientificresearch.blogspot.com.au/2012/01/corona-spy-satellites-and-westall-link.html

An even more remote possibility, that a USAF aircraft (which were flying in Victoria at around that time) had accidentally lost an atomic bomb, was explored, given that Westall witnesses reported individuals with Geiger counters examining the area.

http://ufos-scientificresearch.blogspot.com.au/2012/01/more-speculation-on-westall.html

http://ufos-scientificresearch.blogspot.com.au/2012/03/westall-and-possible-broken-arrow.html

Aircraft chasing UFOs over Victoria

In 2012, there was a tantalising report about another (1967) Victorian sighting involved multiple aircraft chasing UFOs. This second sighting had several common factors with the Westall incident, and just had to be explored. No one had previously published about this.

http://ufos-scientificresearch.blogspot.com.au/2012/03/westall-sequel.html

Later in 2012, a post looked at other potential explanations for Westall.

http://ufos-scientificresearch.blogspot.com.au/2012/09/westall-answer.html

Enter the former Australian Department of Supply

Westall researcher, Shane Ryan received information from the family of a former high up member of the former Department of Supply, which led Shane to understand that that employee knew the answer to what was seen at Westall.

http://ufos-scientificresearch.blogspot.com.au/2012/10/the-former-australian-department-of.html

Image courtesy of the author

Another 1966 mass sighting from an Australian school

Details about another April 1966 Australian school sighting was located, and was reported for the first time on this blog.

http://ufos-scientificresearch.blogspot.com.au/2013/02/another-australian-april-1966-school.html

Did radar pick up anything at Westall?

Researcher Paul Dean located an Australian government file concerning the reported observation of a UFO on radar, three days before Westall. No-one outside of the government prior to Paul, had seen this file.

http://ufos-scientificresearch.blogspot.com.au/2013/02/another-australian-april-1966-school.html

A search was then conducted for other 1966 Melbourne sightings involving radar.

http://ufos-scientificresearch.blogspot.com.au/2013/03/was-there-radar-observation-of-westall.html

A link between Westall and the Balwyn photograph?

The Balwyn, Melbourne photograph was taken on 2 April 1966, and many have speculated as to the possibility that here was a photograph of the object which was seen at Westall, four days later.

Image courtesy of Jim Kibel

http://ufos-scientificresearch.blogspot.com.au/2013/04/was-there-connection-between-westall.html

The HIBAL hypothesis

Extensive work was undertaken to explore the hypothesis (simply an idea to be discussed, confirmed or rejected based on the evidence) that the Westall object(s) was/were associated with the HIBAL program.

HIBAL launch - Image courtesy of National Archives of Australia

http://ufos-scientificresearch.blogspot.com.au/2014/04/project-hibal-answer-to-westall-files.html

http://ufos-scientificresearch.blogspot.com.au/2014/04/westall-hibal-further-information-you.html

Sighting on morning of Westall event - HIBAL balloons were filled using a long hose which remained with the balloon on the flight - image courtesy Shane Ryan

Please read all the original source material before speaking out!

As it was found that few people had ever read all the original source material on Westall, a comprehensive document setting out these sources was published.

http://ufos-scientificresearch.blogspot.com.au/2014/04/westall-read-original-documentation.html

Further material on HIBAL was published

http://ufos-scientificresearch.blogspot.com.au/2014/05/hibal-westall-hypothesis-under-test.html

http://ufos-scientificresearch.blogspot.com.au/2014/06/project-hibal-two-previously-unreleased.html

HIBAL launch  - image courtesy of National Archives of Australia

Further research uncovered details about the Victorian 1967 event which had similarities to Westall.

http://ufos-scientificresearch.blogspot.com.au/2015/02/a-westall-aside-previously-unknown.html

A copy of a 1966 audio recorded interview concerning an interview with Westall witness Andrew Greenwood was discover and reported upon.

http://ufos-scientificresearch.blogspot.com.au/2016/03/andrew-greenwood-and-westall-1966-audio.html

Paul Dean and I returned with  a detailed look at the 1966 Balwyn photograph.

http://ufos-scientificresearch.blogspot.com.au/2017/03/return-to-balwyn.html

Finally, I took a look at the mystery of the missing Channel 9, Westall news film

http://ufos-scientificresearch.blogspot.com.au/2017/07/westall-on-track-of-missing-channel-9.html

In summary

This blog, has since 2010, explored a variety of aspects of the Westall sighting; provided a summary searchable text of all the original source material; uncovered new data; clarified other pieces of  existing information, and put forward a testable non-UFO hypothesis for the event.  

I point out that there is almost no hard data available. There is no analysis of reported ground traces. There is no evidence of radar detection of the object. There are no documents about the sighting to be found in any Australian government file. The witnesses' observations are not well documented from the era, e.g. there are no entries from a 1966 diary. Much of the shared information only came to light since around 2006. Researchers have failed to acknowledge that human memory is prone to errors. No government employees have come forward to say they were involved in a cover up of the incident. Even the legendary US researcher, James E McDonald, following a personal investigation of Westall, never promoted it as an example of the 'core' phenomenon. 

J E McDonald's Westall interview notes with Andrew Greenwood 1967 - image courtesy Michael Swords

Westall - on the track of the missing Channel 9 news report

Introduction - 1966

Around noon on 6 April 1966, a channel 9 TV news crew, consisting of reporter Gordon Leed, and cameraman Keith Ballard, arrived at Westall High School and attempted to interview several students. These interviews were reportedly interrupted by police and school staff. That evening, a GTV-9 news story was shown on air, read by Eric Pierce, about that morning's observation of a 'flying saucer' at Westall. [Source: Chronology for 1966 Westall Flying Saucer Incident - compiled by Shane Ryan.]

Despite numerous inquiries, by a number of people, this Channel 9 TV footage has never been located.

2017

Periodically, I have been searching the National Archives of Australia (NAA), for material relating to the 1966 Westall incident, but without success. 

On 18 June 2017, I came across an NAA file series C475, control symbol 1846620, barcode 13872656, titled 'This Day Tonight (12/10/1976) [segment] solar eclipse 23 October 1976 - UFOs and eclipse.'

Why would this be relevant to Westall? Well, because of a memory recollection I had. I recalled that someone, somewhere, had mentioned that there was a possible segment of the lost 1966 channel 9 news report regarding Westall, which had turned up on an October 1976 TV piece about that year's total solar eclipse. The problem was that I could not recall where I had heard this piece of information. However, that really did not matter, as here I had found a 1976 TV piece about UFOs and the eclipse. Perhaps, here would be some of the missing 1966 channel 9 film? 

I shared my discovery with Westall lead researcher Shane Ryan in Canberra, on 18 June 2017. Shane kindly agreed to make an application to the NAA to have the film examined, and opened for viewing.

Shane views the film

The wheels of the NAA run at their own speed. On 20 July 2017, Shane advised me that he had that day visited the NAA and viewed the film segment. Shane wrote to me:

'It was footage of an interview with Kevin Arnett on the eve of - as far as I could gather (as the sound was poor, and it seemed to be part of a longer interview) - an eclipse viewing at, and a UFO conference in, Mount Gambier. The interview only went for 2.5 minutes. At one point he held up a slide of, apparently the Balwyn UFO photo (he referred to it as Balwyn North.) There were several other slides in a box he had with him. There was no reference to Westall. It was difficult to tell, of course, how much more of the interview there may have been, or what else might have been talked about.'

The source of my memory recollection

The total solar eclipse that year was on 23 October 1976. 'This Day Tonight" was an ABC current affairs program which ran between 1967-1978.

At this point I thought it might be useful to track down where my memory recollection had come from. After some effort, and only after receiving Shane's report, I found the source. It was a message dated 7 August 2005, from Bill Chalker, on the Westall Flying Saucer Incident Yahoo groups discussion forum.

In part this message read:

'...an alternate source for at least part of the 1966 Westall channel coverage should be examined in the form of  A Current Affair story on the Mt Gambier UFO conference coverage. They ran a story on us over there. I'm pretty sure I recollect correctly that they included black & white archival footage of student Marilyn Eastwood and her sketch of the object. That would have been shortly after 23 October 1976. Find that footage and there might be pointers to the original footage?'

Blog readers will note, that Bill refers to the channel 9 TV program 'A Current Affair' and not to the channel 2 TV program 'This Day Tonight.'

Dandenong Journal, 21 April 1966 page 1,showing Marilyn's sketch

Further research

On the eve of 20 July 2017, I checked the NAA for any TV segments they might hold, generated by 'A Current Affair.' I found the NAA currently hold 124 such segments. Some are from 1976, however, none are from October 1976, and none refer to Westall, UFOs, or the solar eclipse.

On that same night, I sent an email to Bill Chalker asking for his 2017 memory recollections of this saga. In summary, Bill confirmed that after returning home from the eclipse and UFO conference, that he recalls seeing a segment on the channel 9 TV program 'A Current Affair.' The segment included footage of a girl and her UFO drawing. He recognised this drawing as a drawing reproduced in the Dandenong Journal, which was by witness Marilyn Eastwood. Bill said 'There was not an explicit reference to Westall, just B&W archival footage inserted into the story.'

Back to the NAA

I then went back to the NAA, and conducted another keyword search using the term 'solar eclipse.' Some more NAA files were displayed, above and beyond the film that Shane viewed. These were:

1. 22 October 1976 - C475, control symbol 1846545 barcode 13872584 [Segment] Solar eclipse 23 October 1976 - Preview.

2. 25 October 1976 - C475, control symbol 184682 barcode 13872535[Segment] Solar eclipse 23 October 1976 - Follow up.

Although these are not segments from 'A Current Affair,' in the interest of thorough research, I feel it is worth checking both these film segments to see if they do indeed contain any reference to Westall, including possible archival material from the missing channel 9 news report. I have therefore asked Shane if he would submit an application for these above two film segments to be examined, and opened for viewing. Naturally, this will take time. 

Thanks to Shane

My thanks to Shane, in Canberra, for taking the time to visit the NAA and view the one segment. Although our mutual efforts to locate Westall relevant files in the NAA, has, so far, proved unsuccessful, at least we are both still trying.

Return to Balwyn

Background

The 2 April 1966, Balwyn, Melbourne, photograph and visual observation, continues to generate interest among some UAP researchers. As long term readers of this blog will be aware, Melbourne researcher Paul Dean and I, have published two lengthy reports on this sighting and photograph (click here and here to read them.)

Herald Newspaper 12 April 1966

During the preparation of these two reports, Paul and I engaged in dialogue with a number of overseas researchers, who both assisted us with locating hard to get articles about the incident, and gave their viewpoints on the Balwyn image.

Sketch of house and garden from where the photograph was taken

One of these individuals was Canadian Francois Beaulieu. Francois has had a long term interest in the study of UAP, and also photography, including Polaroid images. This made him an ideal person to take another look at the Balwyn image, especially as the Balwyn photographer, Jim Kibel, advised that he had located the original Polaroid picture (missing for some time) and made a new scan available for study.

To this end, Francois has prepared a report on aspects of the Balwyn image, and I have arranged with John Stepkowski, webmaster for the Project 1947 website, to host Francois' article. Thank you John.

What is in Francois' article?

Francois was using Polaroid cameras in the mid 1960's, shortly after the Balwyn incident came to light. He tried to recreate test shots of some of the photographic UFO cases of that era. This led him to acquire an in depth knowledge of Polaroid images. 

In  the article, Francois examines the controversy of an apparent zigzag line or discontinuity in the photograph; the apparent reflection of a house on the 'UAP' in the picture; looks at claims that the photograph is a photo montage; and finally asks the photographer, Jim Kibel,  to allow a higher resolution scan to be made of the original Polaroid photograph. To read this intriguing article click here. 

Andrew Greenwood and Westall - a 1966 audio recording.

Hi all,

Introduction

The University of Arizona's special collections area, has a collection of the late Professor James E McDonald's papers, including his work on UAP.

Part of the UAP collection are 110 compact discs containing audio recordings; including 18 discs with interviews by McDonald when he was in Australia in 1967.

Melbourne colleague Paul Dean and I, with the assistance of a long-term US researcher, are working towards acquiring copies of these 18 discs, a few at a time. So far, we have gathered a selection of recordings concerning the April 1966 Balwyn photograph.

A  previous blog brought you a summary of an audio recording about a reported sighting on 24 April 1966, involving the Australian Army. Paul and I, plus others, are trying to locate further information on this incident.

Today's post

Today's post, features information about the 6 April 1966, Westall High School incident, gained from the contents of another audio recording found in the McDonald collection. This one, was an audio letter from an Australian researcher to McDonald, following that researcher's interview, in mid 1966, of Westall High School science teacher, Andrew Greenwood, the main adult witness.

Clayton South - showing the Westall High School

This recording is about a year earlier then the (1967) Greenwood/McDonald audio interview, the contents of which I reported at this website.

The interview

The researcher's brother-in-law and science teacher Andrew Greenwood were both members of a Melbourne club. Therefore, the researcher extended an invitation to Greenwood to visit him at his home. Greenwood accepted.

In the audio recording, the researcher, states that:

1. Greenwood read the May-Jun 1966 APRO Bulletin article titled "Officials quash school sightings" about Westall, and Greenwood thought that there were a number of incorrect facts in that article.

2. Greenwood stated that it was not officials who had quashed the sightings, but in fact it was the school's headmaster who had done so. The headmaster was "so scared" of the whole thing that he refused to go out into the school yard and view the object.

3. When the RAAF contacted the headmaster, he told them to "go jump in the lake."

4. The story as given to him by Greenwood, was that a "rather hysterical child" had run into Greenwood's class saying that there was a flying saucer in the sky. Greenwood eventually went out to have a look, but at first couldn't see anything. Some children in a physical education class were looking into the sky

Greenwood went over to them and then saw the UFO for the first time. It was hovering very closely to powerlines. It was a bright, silver object about the "size of a car." It looked like a "rod" in the sky. It then rose up. There was one light aircraft near it, a Cessna or a Piper Club. Four other aircraft joined the first one. Whenever an aircraft came near the UFO, it moved slowly at first then rapidly, and then stopped.

This went on for 20 minutes, after which the UFO shot away.

The head master then came outside and demanded everyone return to class. Later the head master lectured the school and told students not to talk about it, and that staff could lose their jobs if they (the staff) mentioned the incident.

Greenwood was appalled by the head master's behaviour and was angry with him.

The RAAF rang the head master later in the day, but the head master told them to "go jump in the lake."

When Greenwood spoke to the female physical education teacher, that teacher wouldn't talk to him about what she had seen.

Greenwood also spoke to one of the older female students and she told him the full story of what she had seen. Her description matched his. However, half an hour later, after the girl went home to see her mum, the student wouldn't talk to Greenwood about it anymore.

The object's size had been half the length of a Cessna. Greenwood had been sceptical of the subject of UFOs, but thought the object had been under some form of intelligent control.

Comment

Much has been made, in recollections since 2005, by Westall witnesses, about the negative "official" response to this incident. Here in a mid 1966 recording, Greenwood is reported to have clearly stated that it was not officialdom who quashed the sightings, but the school's head master.